|
Ogg encoding advice?
Printed from: Neuros Forums
Topic URL: http://www.neurosaudio.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1304
Printed on: 01/04/2007
Topic:
Topic author: tobiasly
Subject: Ogg encoding advice?
Posted on: 08/06/2003 09:23:58 AM
Message:
Now that OGG support is "almost official", I've decided to start re-ripping my CD's to OGG (I will not be re-encoding any MP3's to which I don't have the original.)
I've been using CDex for encoding MP3's, and it also supports OGG. The built-in OGG encoder has a date of 2002/07/19 -- is this the newest, or new enough, version of the library?
If not, could I just drop in new vorbis.dll and vorbisenc.dll files from xiph.org? And if no to that, what good direct CD-to-OGG rippers do people recommend?
The default CDex settings (it uses a "quality" setting, but doesn't give a number) produce files that sound much better in WinAMP than the default MP3's, and are a good bit smaller. I hope they sound fine on my Neuros!
Replies:
Reply author: kronin
Replied on: 08/06/2003 09:57:46 AM
Message: Tobiasly, I'm not sure about windows ripping programs, but I think the quality setting is constant across platforms. I encode all my oggs at quality 5 and there is some minor chirping when playing on the neuros. Note that it doesn't affect all songs, it depends on the complexity of the music, etc. When playing in XMMS (linux equivalent of WinAmp), it looks like the bitrate ranges from ~170 to ~200.
Order: 2469
Reply author: hexcentric1
Replied on: 08/06/2003 10:42:43 AM
Message: Cross platform program that's pretty popular:
http://www.cd-rw.org/software/audio_software/audio_encoders/oggdrop_encoder.cfm
Hope it helps; as for quality, there have been other posts fairly recently on the topic, try a search. Pretty much comes down to personal preference.
Now we just have to test our patience for the final firmware release with fully optimized ogg support...
Reply author: tobiasly
Replied on: 08/06/2003 10:45:15 AM
Message: Thanks, I just realized that the default is indeed at "quality" 5 (I missed that label on CDex previously).
I just tried playing some music on the Neuros, and I do indeed get some clicking with some songs. So I guess I'll hold off for now on the Ogg conversion, but any advice would still be appreciated, in anticipation of high-quality Ogg support soon!
Reply author: tobiasly
Replied on: 08/06/2003 10:50:58 AM
Message: Thanks hexcentric, but I already tried that program and it doesn't support direct encoding from CD's, as far as I can tell.
Reply author: twifkak
Replied on: 08/06/2003 1:28:26 PM
Message: quote:
Originally posted by tobiasly
Thanks hexcentric, but I already tried that program and it doesn't support direct encoding from CD's, as far as I can tell.
Myself, I just record to WAV with Winamp (there's a CD-to-soundcard plugin for winamp), and OggdropXPd them into ogg. But I haven't done anything en masse, so I don't know if there's a more efficient way.
Reply author: toohot4love
Replied on: 08/06/2003 2:16:52 PM
Message: I use CD'n'go to encode mp3 and ogg... you can do a lot of other stuff with it too, including fixing your id3 tags. The best part is it's freeware. You can get it here: http://www.cdngo.com
!! omg blog !! http://www.vocis.com/frank
Reply author: hexcentric1
Replied on: 08/06/2003 6:42:12 PM
Message: Hey tobiasly, I'm not sure what all oggdrop will do. I've heard good things, but haven't used it. I use grip in linux, and it does everything quite nicely. Long ago, I tried ripping and encoding in windows, but it was generally a two-step process if you wanted to do it right. I'm sure there are programs out there now that'll do a good job.
But I wouldn't use winamp to create wav files. Going that route, you don't extract the digital data from the cd. so you won't get a perfect copy. then through encoding you lose just a bit of quality. using digital audio extraction (e.g., cdparanoia) you only lose something when you use a lossy codec. might as well try to limit your losses, you know? the program toohot mentioned does this, and appears to be pretty good.
Reply author: twifkak
Replied on: 08/06/2003 7:14:59 PM
Message: Yeah, I'm looking into cdngo, simply because it eliminates a step, and I'm planning on mass-ripping my CDs now that my Neuros is fully functional. However, as I said, I use a Winamp plugin to play my CDs that *does* DDA (or so I think, anyway) -- I could be wrong. (For reference, it's simply called CD Reader.) I needed it a few months ago because the MPwhatever connection between my old CD player and my soundcard was sloppy (clicks and pops) and my dorm room was too crowded to want to open up my computer and check it out. So, if I am indeed not crazy, it might be a solution for those who like to install as few programs as possible (hey, Windows bloat encourages this paranoia).
Reply author: tobiasly
Replied on: 08/07/2003 08:32:53 AM
Message: Thanks for all the suggestions guys; I will definitely look into CDnGo. I agree that I don't want to go the two-step route; even if there is no loss of quality, I don't want to bother with it!
It turns out, though, that CDex is actually working pretty well. I had thought that it had a problem writing the Ogg tags correctly, but this was actually a problem with WinaMP3 reading the tags correctly! (Yes, I know WinaMP3 is a fat, abandonded piece of bloatware, but I love the eye candy!)
**** Neuros Customer Number 2590 :: 20GB/128MB Bundle
Reply author: toohot4love
Replied on: 08/07/2003 4:00:24 PM
Message: quote:
Originally posted by tobiasly
(Yes, I know WinaMP3 is a fat, abandonded piece of bloatware, but I love the eye candy!)
**** Neuros Customer Number 2590 :: 20GB/128MB Bundle
Yeah part of me really wants to download the new Winamp 2.9, but then I just love my Winamp3 skin so much.... I think I just don't care if it almost grinds my computer to a halt sometimes.
!! omg blog !! http://www.vocis.com/frank
Reply author: Don
Replied on: 08/10/2003 6:06:18 PM
Message: quote:
Myself, I just record to WAV with Winamp (there's a CD-to-soundcard plugin for winamp), and OggdropXPd them into ogg. But I haven't done anything en masse, so I don't know if there's a more efficient way.
If you rip to wave and then encode don't you lose much of the tag
information that a direct encode from CD would give you, such as album, artist, year?
Reply author: twifkak
Replied on: 08/10/2003 7:02:06 PM
Message: quote:
Originally posted by Don
If you rip to wave and then encode don't you lose much of the tag
information that a direct encode from CD would give you, such as album, artist, year?
Yeah, actually, come to think of it, that *was* a pain. :P I had to copynpaste it by hand (something windows does well). Thanks for reminding me.
Reply author: BishoP
Replied on: 08/27/2003 4:41:55 PM
Message: Exact Audio Copyhttp://www.exactaudiocopy.de is a windows based extraction tool which uses an external encoder for MP3,OGG,RKA,etc. files. Point the program to the encoder's .exe and select the options. It handles the tagging as well as playlist creation if you select the option.
Reply author: Don
Replied on: 09/03/2003 8:49:40 PM
Message: I generally use dbpoweramp convert to rip and/or encode in windows
www.dbpoweramp.com
The basic program is free, but you can pay extra for a package of
"power user" options.
In Linux, I use grip.
Reply author: powderific(at)hotmail.com
Replied on: 09/21/2003 7:43:03 PM
Message: I use riptrax, it is a free program available here: http://www.riptrax.com/
It'll encode a cd directly.
Reply author: Steve Hayashi
Replied on: 09/30/2003 10:52:37 AM
Message: If you're going to be encoding at -q 5 or higher, I would recommend getting a version of the OggEnc called GT3b1. It was modified by an outside programmer for smarter bitrate calculation.
It can be found at http://rarewares.hydrogenaudio.org/ogg.html
If you want to use ExactAudioCopy, I have written a guide here: http://www.ogghelp.com/ogg/articles.cfm?AID=2
Reply author: encosion's neuros died again... encosion has left the building in a huff, never to return...
Replied on: 10/11/2003 3:28:20 PM
Message: i second steve's choice [ OggEnc2.2 (libVorbis 1.0 GT3b1) ] ..and i use "copah's CD Reader" plugin in conjunction with the "File Output Plugin" for WinAmp 2.91 to rip directly from CD to OGG... .. .
:: peace out ::: :: :
Reply author: shimage
Replied on: 10/13/2003 03:05:24 AM
Message: There are only two ripping/encoding programs worth using on Windows (that I know of) and they're CDex and EAC. I prefer EAC, but that doesn't really mean anything. I am under the impression that their feature sets are roughly equivalent, but I've never used CDex, so I can't really say.
The reason why CDex and EAC are the two that do not suck is that they try to make sure that the rip is correct the first time (i.e. there aren't any spurious bits).
Reply author: tobiasly
Replied on: 10/13/2003 07:14:08 AM
Message: After reading a bit through the CDex forums, I found a user-contributed build called "CDex special edition" which has up-to-date Vorbis and MP3 encoders. I have been using it since then, and have been pretty happy with it.
**** Neuros Customer Number 2590 :: 20GB/128MB Bundle
Reply author: Toojays
Replied on: 03/14/2004 04:28:38 AM
Message: I know this is an old thread, but my two cents. Keep in mind that I have a large hard drive, not a whole lot of CDs, and a 128MB Neuros.
I rip first to FLAC using Grip, and then use oggenc to convert the FLAC files to quality 0 Oggs. This insulates me from any future changes to the Ogg format, and I would recommend it to people who have the disk space. Of course, it's not for everyone, since a FLAC encoded CD still takes 300-400 megabytes. I have Grip fill in the tags for the FLAC file, and oggenc takes the tags from the FLAC and puts them into the Oggs.
The main reason why I do this is that I have been bitten by a couple of Ogg Vorbis issues in the past. One was that I had a bunch of CDs encoded using the Ogg Vorbis betas, and those files wont play on the Neuros. The other was that I had some CDs which I ripped using KDE's audiocd ioslave, which before KDE 3.2 had a data corruption bug.
Ogg Vorbis is definitely the best lossy audio codec around at the moment, but if I use FLAC as my "master" files, I can painlessly reconvert to different types of Ogg Vorbis whenever I want (e.g. I use -q0 on my Neuros, but might go to -q5 on my laptop). Also I have read that the Ogg bitstream format will have to change slightly if bitrate peeling is ever to be implemented properly.
Reply author: Chameleon
Replied on: 03/16/2004 12:41:25 PM
Message: Personally I don't have much hope that Xiph will implement Bitrate Peeling until Vorbis2 is available.
-- 'I switched to Vorbis and saved a bunch on my hard-disk space!'
Reply author: bhartman24(at)comcast.net
Replied on: 05/02/2004 12:13:33 PM
Message: I'm sort of new to using ogg files, but here's my experience:
I use either CDex (which seems to be popular on this board) or Audiograbber. Generally, I like CDex, for some of the reasons already mentioned here.
I've experimented with different quality settings, and find that 8 works best for me. Anything over that and I get pops and skips. Anything under that and the music starts to get fuzzy at spots, and some sounds drop off.
I've actually got a question concerning headphones: What kind of specs do people look for? I've been headphone shopping, and I've noticed that most headphones I've seen (even relatively expensive ones) don't go > 22khz. I'm thinking that if I'm recording at 44khz, that might be a waste. Does anyone have an opinion?
Reply author: Cool4u2view
Replied on: 05/02/2004 2:48:00 PM
Message: For those of you using garf's encoder make sure it's outputing 1.0 or later oggs:
Stolen from an outside webpage:
Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20000508 => 1.0 beta 1 or beta 2
Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20001031 => 1.0 beta 3
Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20010225 => 1.0 beta 4
Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20010615 => 1.0 rc1
Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20010813 => 1.0 rc2
Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20011217 => 1.0 rc3
Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20011231 => 1.0 rc3
Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20020717 => 1.0
Xiph.Org/Sjeng.Org libVorbis I 20020717 (GTune 3, beta 1) => GT3b1
Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20030308 => Post 1.0CVS
Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20030909 (1.0.1) => 1.0.1
Xiph.Org/Sjeng.Org libVorbis I 20030909 (GTune 3, beta 2) EXPERIMENTAL => Experimental GT3b2
Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20031230 (1.0.1) => Post 1.0.1 CVS
Xiph.Org/Sjeng.Org libVorbis I 20031230 (GTune 3, beta 2) => GT3b2
-Jeff
Reply author: 8thNote
Replied on: 05/02/2004 6:28:05 PM
Message: I rip MP3s with LAME at preset: standard which is VBR ~192. I found Ogg q6 to be about the same quality, but 10% smaller. So I may either rip at q6 or q7 to have better quality at the same size.
Daniel J. Lewis
Reply author: mlweaver(at)geneva.edu
Replied on: 05/03/2004 09:39:08 AM
Message: don't confuse 44khz recording with 22khz frequency response... 44k recording means that you are taking 44k 16 bit samples per second. thats 44k samples of the entire spectrum from ~5hz to, say, 25khz. The 44khz X 16bit rate tells you the rate that was used to turn an analog wave form of any (all) audible frequencies into a digital recording.
The 22khz response range that a set of headphones reports, means that the speaker in the headphones can accurately reproduce a wave up to 22khz, without significant drop in sound level (db). it could probably produce a wave at 23khz, but it might be down by 6-12 db or more, in other words, much quieter. Most human ears can perceive up near ~20khz, most anything above that is lost anyway. Most music doesn't have significant content above 16khz, and most OGG and MP3 formats cut out most content above 14-16khz, as part of thier compression (remember, both ogg and mp3 are lossy compression methods. Data is actually cut out, as well as compressed).
-Matt
Neuros Forums : http://www.neurosaudio.com/community/forum/
© Copyright ©2002-05 Neuros Technology International, LLC all rights reserved.
|