Reply author: darren
Replied on: 04/03/2004 07:02:36 AM
Message:

Thanks for the replies everyone. Unfortunately, to date, I don't have any of those features.

Here's a list of what's currently "working". Note the quotes as this is still pre-alpha code. If this interests anyone, say so and I'll upload it somewhere.

Features:
1) All music formats are supported (mp3, ogg, wav, wma). All native file tags are supported.
2) Full m3u playlist support. All associated files are added and a playlist entry is created on the Neuros.
3) Files without id3 or equivalent tags can be tagged by directory layout if they are organized on disk by Genre/Artist/Album/etc. Note: This tagging is done solely to the Neuros. The file itself is not modified. (see configuration file)
4) Sort by title on artists, genres and songs. Sort by track number on albums. No sorting on playlists (list order).
5) Maintains directory/file names as well as file access/modification times during sync.
6) Moving of recordings to user specified directory.
7) Foreign language accents in tags are handled (converted to the nearest English equivalent). This is required by the Neuros as it doesn't support accents.
8) Handling of duplicate title names. Appends a number in parenthesis "(2)" or "(3)" to the title.
9) Crossplatform support (works with latest ActivePerl on Windows).

---

Reply author: saliola
Replied on: 04/03/2004 10:21:38 AM
Message:

I would like to take a look at the code.

Have you implemented the rebuild database command? If so, would it be possible to extract just that code into a small script? This is the only feature that I use, and I wouldn't mind a perl script that did just that. Oh, and I wouldn't mind a script that takes text playlists and creates neuros playlists out of them.

Thanks,
Franco

---

Reply author: gsker
Replied on: 04/03/2004 8:57:00 PM
Message:

I wrote a ogg2mdb perl program. It reads the ogginfo using Ogg::Vorbis::Header and build the database. The reason I wrote is was so I could include playlists based on regular expressions.

It's a little obfuscated, but it's fast and simple. I don't have mp3 support in it yet, but will eventually. It shouldn't be too hard.

The other thing I really wanted was to be able to build the database on the PC and then copy it to the Neuros. Having the software copy things to the neuros just doesn't work for me. I can manage files myself fine. I just needed some way to build the databse.

---

Reply author: saliola
Replied on: 04/03/2004 10:45:41 PM
Message:

gsker,

I wouldn't mind looking at your perl program as well. Want to send it to me?

Franco

---

Reply author: gsker
Replied on: 04/04/2004 09:20:27 AM
Message:

I sent it off to saliola. If it's of wider interest, I'll need to find a public place to put it.

---

Reply author: darren
Replied on: 04/05/2004 04:54:24 AM
Message:

Ok, my script has finally been released. I really despise the sourceforge interface, so I put it up on Yahoo groups. You should be able to post messages at the group if you have any issues or ideas. I hope this thread hasn't been too off-topic for all the positron users.

I call the script Sorune and it's available here:
groups.yahoo.com/group/sorune/

Happy syncing.

Update: Forgot to mention that Sorune has rebuild support now.

---

Reply author: darren
Replied on: 04/19/2004 10:38:51 PM
Message:

I've added a GUI front-end to Sorune. It's written in Perl Tk. Before you say it must be ugly if it's written in Tk, please give it a look. It's really not that bad.

You can check out snapshots and download version 0.2 at the group.

groups.yahoo.com/group/sorune

Update: Sorune 0.2.2 now includes Album under Artist support. Also, the flash backpacks should be working now!?!

---

Reply author: 8thNote
Replied on: 04/24/2004 9:06:04 PM
Message:

What are the advantages of this over the two current sync managers?

Daniel J. Lewis

---

Reply author: darren
Replied on: 04/25/2004 12:22:07 AM
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 8thNote
What are the advantages of this over the two current sync managers?

---

If this was any other thread, I'd assume the two are NSM and NDBM. This is the Positron thread though, so I'll briefly mention all three.

NSM doesn't work on Linux and doesn't support syncing from multiple computers (at least not well).

NDBM is a fine solution. It worked great for me up until I started Sorune. Haven't tried it lately, but I'm sure it's even better now. I suppose the lack of Java in Sorune may appeal to some people?

Positron is missing a GUI. I like the command line more than most people, but GUIs are awfully nice. From the comments in this thread, I think Sorune may have more features and support more formats than Positron. However, I haven't used Positron so I could be mistaken.

I guess it would be nice to compile a table of what each program can do. Perhaps it could be included at the neurosfaq site?

---

Reply author: gsker
Replied on: 04/25/2004 10:49:56 AM
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by darren

Update: Sorune 0.2.2 now includes Album under Artist support. Also, the flash backpacks should be working now!?!

---

Darren, Where did you get the specs for the database? I'd like to update my little script, but I can't find anything about the database changes for Album under Artist. (My Neuros is at out for USB2 update now, but I'd like to get started anyway.)

Gerry

---

Reply author: darren
Replied on: 04/25/2004 4:54:37 PM
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by gsker

Darren, Where did you get the specs for the database?

---

I haven't seen the new database specs either. For now, it looks like not much has changed but I've read that Sean is rewriting his db code so there must be something big coming???

For now, it's implemented like this:
Albums mdb still includes all album names as it's primary data. However, it has two access keys now. It has an All access key pointing to itself and an Artists access key pointing to a new ArtistAlbum mdb.
ArtistAlbum mdb (the new child of Albums mdb) contains all artist names as it's primary data.
ArtistAlbum parent index points to the individual artist's albums (in Albums mdb) which in turn points to the master (root) index.

So you end up with the following:
Albums->All->Legacy Album List
Albums->Artists->Artist Name->Individual Album List

I'm hoping this new database does or will eventually support:
Artists->Artist Name->Individual Album List

I've thought about how to get that to work under the current spec and I don't think it can be done. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

So, to surmise, I don't see what's changed. At least this implementation of album under artist was possible under the current spec. I haven't tried putting 2.13 fw back on my Neuros to see if it will in fact work with this multiply nested database. That's because 2.14 seems much more responsive to me and I like that a lot! So, I'm guessing the firmware wouldn't have supported the multiple level nesting and requiring a 2.14 level of firmware in Sorune.

---

Reply author: K-Man666
Replied on: 04/25/2004 5:19:30 PM
Message:

Could you just post any license (at best GNU GPL) to your scripts?

Kaspar (The German Guy)

---

Reply author: gsker
Replied on: 04/25/2004 5:25:26 PM
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by darren

quote:

---

Originally posted by gsker
Darren, Where did you get the specs for the database?

---

I haven't seen the new database specs either. For now, it looks like not much has changed but I've read that Sean is rewriting his db code so there must be something big coming???
[SNIP]
So, I'm guessing the firmware wouldn't have supported the multiple level nesting and requiring a 2.14 level of firmware in Sorune.

---

Got it! Thanks for the details! So there's no change in the XI part of the database either?

---

Reply author: Sean Starkey
Replied on: 04/25/2004 5:48:42 PM
Message:

The big difference in the new firmware is the subdatabase support.

I don't know if the XI menus have changed. I haven't looked at them yet.

gsker, my reply mail to you bounced. Don't know why, it didn't like my return address (which is perfectly valid.)

Come see me on IRC if you want some quick responses to questions.

Sean Starkey - Project Manager for Neuros Database Manipulator - http://neurosdbm.sourceforge.net

---

Reply author: darren
Replied on: 04/25/2004 10:38:39 PM
Message:

Kaspar: Sorune is under the GPL. All of the 3rd party modules are under the Perl Artistic License. Both licenses are compatible with the OSI: www.opensource.org/licenses/index.php

Gerry/Sean: The XI menus have not changed with 1.45 of NSM. As far as I know there's no spec on them.

---

Reply author: awh
Replied on: 04/26/2004 10:49:38 AM
Message:

I can't figure out why doing "rebuild" is so slow... Positron can rebuild my Neuros in a matter of 10 minutes or so; this software was at 4% after a half hour.

- awh

---

Reply author: kronin
Replied on: 04/26/2004 11:50:44 AM
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by awh

I can't figure out why doing "rebuild" is so slow... Positron can rebuild my Neuros in a matter of 10 minutes or so; this software was at 4% after a half hour.

- awh

---

From the Readme:
"The following external Perl modules are not required, but are highly
recommended:

Ogg::Vorbis
Installing this module will significantly speed up ogg vorbis parsing
and make rebuilds tolerable. Without this module, Sorune has to read the
entire ogg vorbis file in order to determine the playing time. This is
not desired at any time, but especially not during a rebuild. If you
don't have any ogg vorbis files, this module isn't necessary."

My rebuild was going slow, then I installed this module, and all is well.


Thanks Darren for your hard work. I was using NSM to get artist-album, but it messed up all my track durations. Now I have artist-album and my track lengths are correct I think I'll go back to NeurosDBM once it supports artist-album, but you have a good thing going here (and for the users that won't run Java, this is an excellent replacement, better than positron).

---

Reply author: K-Man666
Replied on: 04/26/2004 1:39:43 PM
Message:

Could you post sorune on any other site but yahoo? My preference for mozilla makes yahoo deny my login, so I can't see anything of your application/script.
Maybe we could make a new site with all of the synchronisation apps on it(OpenNSM,NDBM,Sorune,Positron, maybe gsker's script).

Kaspar (The German Guy)

---

Reply author: Azraak
Replied on: 04/26/2004 9:18:53 PM
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by awh
I can't figure out why doing "rebuild" is so slow... Positron can rebuild my Neuros in a matter of 10 minutes or so; this software was at 4% after a half hour.

---

I am not even using sorune yet so can't talk from personal experience, but if you have oggs on your player, have you installed the Ogg::Vorbis module the README mentions? (which I might add I can't find in Debian; I can only find Ogg::Vorbis::Header. Hrm... odd. Oh well, guess I'll have to go download it from CPAN.)

Jamie

---

Reply author: awh
Replied on: 04/27/2004 1:18:53 PM
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by kronin

From the Readme:
"The following external Perl modules are not required, but are highly
recommended:

Ogg::Vorbis

---

Oh, duh. I thought that I'd installed it, but I guess I hadn't. Of course I only found out after I rewrote the Ogg parsing routines.

Anyway, yes, back to the original Ogg parsing routines, and installing Ogg::Vorbis did the trick.

Is the author of this script accepting patch contributions? I've modified it so that it maintains separate albums for two different artists that have the same album name (like "Greatest Hits").

---

Reply author: sez
Replied on: 04/27/2004 3:10:35 PM
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by K-Man666

Could you post sorune on any other site but yahoo? My preference for mozilla makes yahoo deny my login, so I can't see anything of your application/script.

---

After you log in, and Yahoo! sends you back to the page you were at before, hit the Reload button in Mozilla. You should then be logged in.

For some reason, Yahoo!'s cookie doesn't get read until you do a reload. This, at least, happens to me on the My Yahoo! page. Once the cookie is set, I can get anywhere in Yahoo I need to get to (including the Sorune group, from which I used Mozilla to download the software).

---

Reply author: K-Man666
Replied on: 04/27/2004 3:50:58 PM
Message:

Doesn't work for me: yahoo says my browser doesn't accept cookies. reload won't help
reentering the page doesn't help
back and forward won't help
I simply can by no means log in.


Kaspar (The German Guy)

---

Reply author: kronin
Replied on: 04/27/2004 3:56:43 PM
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by K-Man666

Doesn't work for me: yahoo says my browser doesn't accept cookies. reload won't help
reentering the page doesn't help
back and forward won't help
I simply can by no means log in.


Kaspar (The German Guy)

---

Do you have cookies disabled? What version of Mozilla are you using?

---

Reply author: K-Man666
Replied on: 04/27/2004 4:03:28 PM
Message:

I was using 1.4.
The strange thing is, that everything is ok with firefox.
And,yes, all cookies were enabled.

Kaspar (The German Guy)

---

Reply author: Chameleon
Replied on: 04/27/2004 4:38:55 PM
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by K-Man666

I was using 1.4.
The strange thing is, that everything is ok with firefox.

---

FireFox is better anyway.


-- 'I switched to Vorbis and saved a bunch on my hard-disk space!'

---

Reply author: darren
Replied on: 04/27/2004 7:06:05 PM
Message:

Finally! I know exactly how you felt Kaspar. I've been unable to login to these forums for the past 24hrs. I even got desperate and tried IE. No joy there either (typical I suppose). I'm glad you got to login eventually. I use Firefox as my main browser as well.

Thanks for the kind words Kronin. I hope you will let me know what you like/dislike about Sorune.

AWH, yes I'll take patches/comments/criticisms/whatever. Just submit them to my sorune yahoo address.

I hope Sorune isn't too confusing for anyone. It is a little different. Some kind of help/instructions is on my list of todo items. I'm surprised nobody has asked how to go back in the audio browser. Just in case you haven't gotten that far yet, use the right mouse button.

As for the cumulative website idea, that would be fine with me. Redistribution is allowed under the GPL.

Update: Forgot to mention that if anyone knows a pure perl method of getting the playing time from an ogg vorbis file w/o reading the entire file I'd like to hear about it. That would eliminate the multiple way of parsing ogg files in Sorune.

---

Reply author: NC-17
Replied on: 04/28/2004 05:24:29 AM
Message:

i found Ogg::Vorbis::Header::PurePerl using ppm on Windows the other day... maybe that does it ? (or maybe it still does it reading the whole file, not sure...)

---

Reply author: darren
Replied on: 04/29/2004 08:37:22 AM
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by NC-17

i found Ogg::Vorbis::Header::PurePerl using ppm on Windows the other day... maybe that does it ? (or maybe it still does it reading the whole file, not sure...)

---

That's what I'm using as the default ogg parser. It reads the entire file. Let me know if you find anything else. Thanks!

---

Reply author: awh
Replied on: 04/29/2004 12:36:27 PM
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by darren
Update: Forgot to mention that if anyone knows a pure perl method of getting the playing time from an ogg vorbis file w/o reading the entire file I'd like to hear about it. That would eliminate the multiple way of parsing ogg files in Sorune.

---

Theoretically it should be possible, looking at the C source code for libvorbis.

If nobody else is working on this I can give it a crack tonight.

- awh

---

Reply author: noiz
Replied on: 04/29/2004 1:44:35 PM
Message:

im wondering darren if there is a way to select all of the songs on an album or by an artist. i tried your program and i think it is okay but the one thing i didnt like was after i rebuilt the database it didnt keep my old playlists and i would have to select the songs one by one to add them to a playlist. so is there a way i can do this and if i cant are you going to hopefully have that implemented soon?

-noiz

---

Reply author: darren
Replied on: 04/29/2004 6:38:28 PM
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by awh

If nobody else is working on this I can give it a crack tonight.

---

That would be fantastic. Thanks!

---

Reply author: darren
Replied on: 04/29/2004 6:46:08 PM
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by noiz

im wondering darren if there is a way to select all of the songs on an album or by an artist. i tried your program and i think it is okay but the one thing i didnt like was after i rebuilt the database it didnt keep my old playlists and i would have to select the songs one by one to add them to a playlist. so is there a way i can do this and if i cant are you going to hopefully have that implemented soon?

---

Yes, this can be done. Select the Artists that you want to include in the playlist by single clicking on their names in the audio browser (right side). Then click the "Create/Add to Playlist" button. Enter a name for the playlist and click ok. If you want to add to that playlist later with a different selection of albums, just use the same playlist name.

I think I'll have Sorune remember the last playlist name entered so you don't have to retype it in these circumstances.

-Darren

---

Reply author: saliola
Replied on: 04/29/2004 7:15:21 PM
Message:

quote:

---

I think I'll have Sorune remember the last playlist name entered so you don't have to retype it in these circumstances.

---

Sorune should have an option "turn albums into playlists".

---

Reply author: darren
Replied on: 04/29/2004 7:55:42 PM
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by saliola
Sorune should have an option "turn albums into playlists".

---

I'm not sure what you mean. You can select multiple albums and then hit create/add to playlist.

I just found a bug with the new album under artist feature in the sorune audio browser. If you select an album from the albums->artists->artist name->album name menu you will get all albums added to the playlist. The workaround is to select the album(s) from the albums->All->album name menu. This will be fixed in the upcoming version.

Update: This doesn't affect the Neuros operation of album under artist. Only Sorune's Create/Add to Playlist and Play operations.

---

Reply author: gsker
Replied on: 04/29/2004 9:05:09 PM
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by darren
Update: Forgot to mention that if anyone knows a pure perl method of getting the playing time from an ogg vorbis file w/o reading the entire file I'd like to hear about it. That would eliminate the multiple way of parsing ogg files in Sorune.

---

in ogg2mdb I use
my $ogg = Ogg::Vorbis::Header->new("$songfile");
$song{$songfile}{"length"} = int($ogg->info("length")+.5);

HTH

---

Reply author: darren
Replied on: 05/02/2004 7:07:01 PM
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by gsker
in ogg2mdb I use
my $ogg = Ogg::Vorbis::Header->new("$songfile");
$song{$songfile}{"length"} = int($ogg->info("length")+.5);

---

Finally got a chance to look at this module. Looks like it uses the libvorbis library. Thanks for the info though. There seems to be a lot of vorbis parsing modules but none that are quite perfect for all OS's. Hopefully AWH will be able to remedy that soon.

---

Reply author: darren
Replied on: 05/02/2004 7:09:25 PM
Message:

I just added artist under genre and album under genre to Sorune. If anyone is interested in those menus, grab version 0.2.6.

---

Reply author: noiz
Replied on: 06/15/2004 11:08:51 AM
Message:

sorune has come a long way from when it first started and in case anyone wants to see what it looks like but dont want to sign up for the yahoo group yet i have a picture of the new version that i changed the colors. it makes it look like it is the sync manager made for the neuros II. the link is:
http://free.hostultra.com/~n0iz77/.

-noiz

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Reply author: unknown_lamer
Replied on: 06/21/2004 10:28:16 AM
Message:

I decided to try out Sorune and came upon a small problem:

The default geometry for the gui in the config is 0x0+0+0 or a 0x0 window in the upper left corner. It took me a while to figure out why the GUI wasn't working. It should be set to something reasonable so that it can be seen without editing the config.

I'm running Debian unstable with the latest Perl TK and Sorune 0.3.4.

---

Reply author: darren
Replied on: 06/21/2004 6:34:00 PM
Message:

Hmmm... that is very strange. This was actually fixed in 0.3.4 to default to 640x480. Can you reproduce this behaviour with the following steps?
1) close sorune
2) remove or rename your .sorunerc file (in your home directory)
3) start sorune

The only thing I can think of is you may have started an earlier version of sorune and it placed the 0x0 setting in your config file. If this still happens after the above steps, please start a discussion at the group and we'll find a way to get this working properly.

Thanks!

quote:

---

Originally posted by unknown_lamer

I decided to try out Sorune and came upon a small problem:

The default geometry for the gui in the config is 0x0+0+0 or a 0x0 window in the upper left corner. It took me a while to figure out why the GUI wasn't working. It should be set to something reasonable so that it can be seen without editing the config.

I'm running Debian unstable with the latest Perl TK and Sorune 0.3.4.

---

---

Reply author: unknown_lamer
Replied on: 06/21/2004 7:01:43 PM
Message:

Just another quick problem:

Sorune doesn't rename characters like ˙ to safe characters like Positron does so I can't sync e.g. Queensr˙che onto the Neuros because mkdir fails with a bad directory name.

I'd really like to have Albums under Artist but I can't with Positron and NDBM doesn't work (even without the GUI I don't have the XML libs it uses).

The messed up geometry settings were because I had started 0.3.1 before. After removing my .sorunerc and starting over it works fine.

---

Reply author: darren
Replied on: 06/21/2004 10:37:03 PM
Message:

Yes, this is by design (the directory/filenames should always match).

I'm curious as to what kind of error you are seeing from mkdir. I copied the Queensr˙che text below and issued a mkdir command with it. It succeded in creating the directory on the Neuros. What happens when you try that? If that works, what error do you get from manually copying the directory to the Neuros (with cp -r)?

You might want to double check that the Neuros is mounted as vfat and not msdos or umsdos. Also, what filesystem type is this Queensr˙che directory on (ext2/ext3/reiser/etc...)? I'm trying to reproduce this, but have been unable to so far.

-Darren

quote:

---

Originally posted by unknown_lamer
Sorune doesn't rename characters like ˙ to safe characters like Positron does so I can't sync e.g. Queensr˙che onto the Neuros because mkdir fails with a bad directory name.

---

---

Reply author: noiz
Replied on: 07/24/2004 12:19:16 PM
Message:

got some pics of sorune here that show some of sorunes features and its configuration options. there are different color themes so if you dont like the one i have you could change to a different theme or easily create your own color theme.

-noiz

---

Reply author: huges84
Replied on: 07/24/2004 1:34:56 PM
Message:

noiz you like Operation Ivy too! They are like my favorite band.

Too bad some little sh!t stole my CDs the other week right out of my car in my driveway (and my brother's also). And right before we went on vacation, driving 6 hours each way :(

And I didn't have Neuros yet because I am waiting to recieve my 256MB Bundle. But the good news is that we have most of our music on the computer, even if they are only in 128Kb MP3s (wish they were -q6 vorbis).

Sorry to polute the thread, but I really needed to vent.

That was Zen, this is Tao

---

Reply author: noiz
Replied on: 07/24/2004 1:40:41 PM
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by huges84

noiz you like Operation Ivy too! They are like my favorite band.

Too bad some little sh!t stole my CDs the other week right out of my car in my driveway (and my brother's also). And right before we went on vacation, driving 6 hours each way :(

And I didn't have Neuros yet because I am waiting to recieve my 256MB Bundle. But the good news is that we have most of our music on the computer, even if they are only in 128Kb MP3s (wish they were -q6 vorbis).

Sorry to polute the thread, but I really needed to vent.

That was Zen, this is Tao

---

acually, i dont really like them but my brother had one of their cds so i decided to rip the cd.

-noiz
edit: if anyone is interested in seeing my playlist i just uploaded it here.

---

Reply author: michalp(at)gmail.com
Replied on: 07/26/2004 12:39:42 PM
Message:

excuse my ignorance but where can I dowload Sorune

---

Reply author: noiz
Replied on: 07/26/2004 12:41:01 PM
Message:

quote:

---

Originally posted by michalp(at)gmail.com

excuse my ignorance but where can I dowload Sorune

---

you can download it here.

-noiz

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