Neuros N3
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Topic URL: http://www.neurosaudio.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7189
Printed on: 01/04/2007
Topic:
Topic author: andrew.baculy(at)gmail.com
Subject: Neuros N3 I'm sure many of us are tiredly waiting for the N3! Please give us any updates you can, as it has been a while. We definitely need a new portable that has the features of the N1 and N2, plus man more modern features. What can you tell us?
Replies:
Posted on: 04/24/2006 11:40:25 PM
Message:
Reply author: rlovvo
Replied on: 04/24/2006 11:56:43 PM
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When's the last time anyone has heard definitive news from Neuros? I own an N1, N2 a recorder, and the 442, and can't wait for the N3 
I'm no marketing expert, but all the features we're waiting for are starting to show up on other platforms. That by itself wouldn't stop me from waiting for the N3, but when months go by without any updates or email notices, then one wonders how active Neuros really is
To be fair, I'm sure there's many people who are probably testing and helping out, and have a decent idea what is going on. I just wish the rest of us would get some marketing words of encouragement every now and then. A good public relations plan might include using the forums for two-way communications 
Reply author: keyboards
Replied on: 04/25/2006 11:13:10 PM
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I completely agree. I bought a Neuros II ages ago, it got stolen and then bought another off ebay. Or almost did: the jerk who sold it sold it as a Neuros II when it was actually a I. Then he disappeared. Anyhoo..... I'm almost ready to give up and buy an Archos AV 500 (100GB!!), or even better, the PMA 400 (30GB). That one is crazy! Are you listening Neuros? Wifi, ethernet, infrared, usb, touch screen, email, internet, record wav/mp3 with TOP NOTCH level metering, record video, built-in speaker, built in mic, display pdf, synch with outlook...... runs linux, you can develop software for it..... Sorry - I know I sound like I work for them but come on, Neuros! You haven't said BOO about N3 for AGES! As soon as I can afford it I'm going for one of the above. I need the WAV record function, and the other stuff kicks ass. The would love to spend less for slightly less features, but...
The other day at security checkpoint in the airport the sec guard said "what's that?" I said MP3 player. She said "Hmmm must be a really old one." I tried not to bristle. But its true, its a brick.
Reply author: brewer13210
Replied on: 04/26/2006 05:56:04 AM
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Alas, the archos won't play ogg files :-(
Reply author: keyboards
Replied on: 04/26/2006 09:22:38 AM
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Indeed. No ogg, and doesn't broadcast to FM. Two minuses - large for some. But it's available for purchase!
Reply author: rlovvo
Replied on: 04/26/2006 09:55:09 AM
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It's not just the N3, either. From other posts, the N3 is on the back burner until the next recorder and 442 comes out. Unless I'm not reading the right forums, there's been no real word on anything for months. I can't afford to buy something now, and a Neuros later.
I feel like Linus. "Just wait, Charlie Brown! The Great Neuros will come up in the sky, offering sales merchandise to every good boy and girl! Just you wait and see!"
Without some sort of timeline, I can't make any informed decision as to wait or go elsewhere.
Reply author: Llama
Replied on: 04/27/2006 5:55:25 PM
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I couldn't wait any longer for a new player. Everybody I knew was getting brand new iPods, Zens, etc. They were all playing video and viewing their pictures, while I was still stuck with my Neuros II that was twice the size and weight of theirs, had a smaller screen, was greyscale, and hadn't had any firmware updates in months. I'm sorry to say, but I've switched to an iAudio X5. I remain a Neuros fan, and may still purchase the N3, but NA is going to have to pull out all the stops to really convert any users at this point.
Reply author: JoeBorn
Replied on: 04/29/2006 2:30:38 PM
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What about the 442v2? I realize it's a "PMP" but it's also a great audio player (albeit big). It's got huge capacity and 96khz/24 bit audio, great recording capability, etc. Is it the physical size of the device that's not allowing it to be a consideration, or just the marketing?
jborn (at) neurosaudio.com
Reply author: RevRon
Replied on: 04/29/2006 4:47:02 PM
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In my opinion it's both.
The size is definately a minus for an audio player, great for a vid device.
The market is fast passing Neuros by because of lack of responsiveness and timeliness.
It is a GREAT product I will grant, but getting the word out and the products to market seems to be a snails pace operation.
Sometimes "too many" cooks create a poor dish. Open source is a great idea, just not in the development stage. Trying to have everyone give input and design based on that is not a workable idea. There has to be a workable idea already on the table for it to even have a chance. There will always be someone who wants something different or reversed or deleted and anything done "by" committee is doomed to failure. I worked for the phone company many years ago and one of the favorite sayings was, "If you want to kill something, send it to committee."
Blessings,
Rev. Ronald G.
Reply author: keyboards
Replied on: 05/01/2006 03:30:54 AM
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Joe - the 442 would have been a contender for me, and in the right ball park price wise long ago, if you had only included WAV audio recording. As far as I understand, you have only created a device that plays/records Mp3, WMA, and a few other lossy codecs. Not sufficient for semi-serious portable hi-fi recording. Come on, it must be relatively easy to incorporate playback and recording of uncompressed audio.... You don't need any codecs at all!
Reply author: rlovvo
Replied on: 05/01/2006 08:25:49 AM
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What marketing?
The only marketing I've seen for the 442v2 is the upgrade policy for buying the original 442. Maybe these forums aren't the place to get information on products, but I don't know where that place might be, either. Personally, I don't know if the 442v2 will work for me because, as posted earlier, I have no idea how long the wait might be, what type of pricing it may have, or what the final product will end up being.
Reply author: brewer13210
Replied on: 05/01/2006 09:07:36 AM
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Back to one of the original questions, is there a rough ETA for the N3 at all?
Reply author: RevRon
Replied on: 05/01/2006 09:33:55 AM
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I haven't heard of any specfically. I'd like to know also.
Rev. Ronald G.
Reply author: carl
Replied on: 05/28/2006 5:56:40 PM
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Seriously Joe, what's the deal? When's the N3 coming out??? I don't want an Ipod. I don't want the next greatest gadget. I just want a damn good, small, mp3 player. Like the N2, only smaller ... a lot smaller. Give us something ... anything ... this year, next year, whatever. Just feed us a bone of some kind.
I've got an N2 and I love it, but it's just not portable and I hate to admit it, but I'm embarrased by the size of it. It's also getting long in the tooth and I want a new player and I'd LOVE to get another Neuros, but I'm not going to wait forever.
Please let us in on your schedule.
Carl.
Reply author: RevRon
Replied on: 05/28/2006 10:29:47 PM
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Amen Carl!
I really would like the N3 sooner rather than later!
Ron
Rev. Ronald G.
Reply author: Tho_mas
Replied on: 05/30/2006 03:23:15 AM
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Has anyone tried out these two recorders: Edirol r-09 and M-Audio Microtrack? They have the very important recording features but record to SD and CF cards. The only problem: its not a decent mp3 player olso.
Reply author: rlovvo
Replied on: 05/30/2006 09:52:37 AM
Message:
Well, it's been a month since Joe asked about the 442v2, and nobody from Neuros has been heard from since. 
I could handle the size, but the recording wasn't working too well for my situation. I record classroom lectures, which are hard to record anyway. During playback, I have the sound turned up and hear the harddrive cycling every so often. Lately, I've switched my recording the a Creative Zen. The recording isn't any better sound-wise, but doesn't have the harddrive cycling (since there's no drive). Also, it IS much smaller, lasts 8 hours, and has plenty of room for weeks of recording.
I think I'll use my Neuros at home for now on, and just carry a couple of zen players with me for traveling. It's easier to carry 2 or 3 zens and an extra battery in my pocket than the Neuros with an adapter.
Anyone remember the Amiga computer? Best 128-meg computer around, could format 4 floppy drives and still multitask! All this in '87! They were the best, except for their marketing. I think Neuros is operating the same way. So many questions from the die-hard users, and no response. No exitement. No more newsletters. no more ... anything?
Reply author: keyboards
Replied on: 05/30/2006 10:07:58 AM
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Tho_mas - I work at a music store, and have seen the Edirol/Roland recorders go through the stock. They are GREAT portable recorders. Built in stereo condersors and jack for stereo mics, with or without preamps. But I want a player too..... AND a HD for recording.
I'm beginning to think they're trying to quietly phase out the Audio only device.
Reply author: Wolfgan
Replied on: 05/31/2006 12:11:32 PM
Message:
I've just got an iRiver H140 from ebay at US170. Installed Rockbox as main OS/application and added a few extra packages (like Recording Enhancement Pack).... superb playing capabilities (almost any popular format run smoothly, several lossless ones) and very good recording capabilites.
Try that one till the N3 comes up. Wolf.
Reply author: RevRon
Replied on: 05/31/2006 1:16:33 PM
Message:
It's interesting to note that, as mentioned before, no one from Neuros has responded to our discussion or call for a "bone" on the N3. It would be nice to have Joe or someone of the "higher ups" tell us what their strategy is, even if it is to NOT release the N3! I would be OK with that; it's just the not knowing and the waiting for updates that gets me down.
R
Rev. Ronald G.
Reply author: carl
Replied on: 05/31/2006 2:12:49 PM
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by RevRon
it's just the not knowing and the waiting for updates that gets me down.
QFE
Reply author: JoeBorn
Replied on: 05/31/2006 9:55:52 PM
Message:
I appoligize for being out of touch on this. I don't mean to blow you guys off (although I realize that's inadvertantly what I've been doing). Internally we are trying to decide this very issue. We are growing our team, both in the US and China to be able to do more products, but at this point, we're still stretched pretty thin. We keep pushing off the N3 project and even the 442v2 to focus on the R3. I realize that's not much consolation to the folks on this thread, but it's only fair to give you an honest assesment of the situation.
Like all of you, as a user, I long for an N3 myself, and I wish I had a better assesment of the schedule at this point, my best guess is that we're looking at mid '07 now. In the meantime, I will get more information to you regarding the 442v2, which except for the size, could be an excellent solution for most of you (which BTW, will have .wav recording)
jborn (at) neurosaudio.com
Reply author: chad(at)gambit.net
Replied on: 06/01/2006 11:41:53 AM
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My ONLY issue with getting a 442v2 is the lack of NeuroCast. I use it far too often to be without it.
(Money is a bit of a concern now, too, now that I have a shiny new MacBook Pro, but such is life.)
Reply author: RevRon
Replied on: 06/01/2006 10:46:22 PM
Message:
I don't want a 442V2 because I don't want something that big, my N2 is big enough. I'm interested in the Audio not the Video, so the 442 doesn't hold any spark for me.
I'm bummed that we aren't going to see anything significant until mid-2007, but as they say, "Better late than never!"
Thank you Joe, I wish we could make it get created sooner, but that's not the reality (yet).
Rev. Ronald G.
Reply author: carl
Replied on: 06/02/2006 12:12:15 AM
Message:
I agree with the good reverend. Like I said before, all I want is a good, SMALL, audio player - and I LOVE the neurocast. I have no interest in buying a pmp, so the 442 holds no value to me.
Thanks for responding Joe, but I'm still disappointed it's going to take that long for a new player.
Carl.
Reply author: mrchyles
Replied on: 06/02/2006 04:40:30 AM
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Anyone else feel, sort of, betrayed... Let down.
They hyped up the Neuros 3 in fall of 2005, with all of the head-fi forums and what not, made it seem like it was so close to being developed and then... PUT ON THE BACK BURNER!
Lets think... They have released (correct me if I am wrong) the recorder 1 and 2, the 442 and will release the 442v2, the R3, and maybe even the Vdrive all between the time they released the N2 and released the N3? That is pretty ridculous. I believe the audio player was the product that started it all, right?
It seems they have delayed the vitally necessary N3, to release the not even remotely as necessary 442v2 and the R3. Think about it: The 442 is fine as a media player for now, and the R2 is fine also. The N2 is leaps and bounds behind recent developments. I am getting sick and tired for getting ridiculed for carting a brick everywhere I go. And when a ray of light was shinning from the N3 they snuffed it! It seems a lot of people are talking about potentially letting go and puting their money in another companies player because they simply cannot wait any longer...
Has the N3 missed its biggest window?
(I know... I am pretty cynical and upset. I have put a lot faith in this company for a while, but it seems they set the wrong priorities)
I just hope I can control myself long enough to wait for the N3 because it SOUNDS simply amazing...
hmm...glad that is off my chest. it is time to cool down...
Reply author: brewer13210
Replied on: 06/02/2006 05:44:19 AM
Message:
Delaying the N3 until 2007 essentially takes DI out of the portable audio player market. Due to the projected release date, the N3 will have to be completely re-designed anyways, dut to changes in available technology.
I'm happy with my N2 for now, and honestly don't care what anyone else thinks about the size of my player. The problem for DI is that when it comes time to buy a replacement, with a release date for the N3 so far away, there is little chance that I'll wait for the N3, I'll just buy something that's available NOW.
Todd
Reply author: RevRon
Replied on: 06/02/2006 06:38:47 AM
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Sorry to be "dense" Todd, but what is DI?
Rev. Ronald G.
Reply author: brewer13210
Replied on: 06/02/2006 08:48:53 AM
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Sorry, old habit. The company name used to be Digital Innovations.
http://reviews.cnet.com/Digital_Innovations_Neuros_HD_20_GB/4505-6490_7-20761164.html
Todd
Reply author: rlovvo
Replied on: 06/02/2006 09:57:58 AM
Message:
I think there was a great advantage being an early innovator, and I love the neurocast feature, but there's no perceived advantage to entering the market last. NeurosAudio must believe the R3 will have a better profit margin if they can get it finished.
At least we know, and now we can make better consumer decisions. Like Todd and mrchyles, I'll just have to wait and see if the N3 is better than the other players I have at the time (so far, an N1, N2, and two creative zens, and will begin looking for a slimmer 40G player). We'll still use the N1 and N2, but may not need anything the N3 has to offer a year from now.
Who knows? Maybe the timeline will improve over the next few months ...
Rick
Reply author: carl
Replied on: 06/02/2006 4:19:25 PM
Message:
mrchyles said it perfectly and I totally agree with him. I feel 'betrayed'. I've been checking these forums almost daily for news about the N3 for the past year and now we find out it's going to be 'at least' another year. In my experience this means at least another 6 months after that.
So, mrchyles, I think you're right: neuros is missing a great opportunity right now and the technology will have changed so much in a year+ that it will have to be totally re-designed (e.g. the way things are going, 10-20GB flash players are going to be the norm by that time).
I think I'm going to have to do the unthinkable and get a ipod. Ah well, I think waiting a year for vapor-ware is long enough.
Carl.
Reply author: RevRon
Replied on: 06/02/2006 8:25:09 PM
Message:
Being one of the "long time" advocates and supports of Neuros regarding the N3, sadly I have to agree with you Carl.
It appears that the N3 is dead and will not be a viable instrument in our possession any time soon, if ever. With all the delays and the focus being on equipment that doesn't truly fit the Audiophiles need or desire, I'm sorry to add my energy to the switching from the N3 to other available players.
I will keep watching and be interested in seeing how Neuros addresses this "opportunity" for development; however, since there is no meaningful growth in the direction of developing the N3, I am going to start researching other viable options.
Do you really think that a 10 or 20 GB flash player will be available and reasonable soon? That would be a very interesting development! Imagine the size and the design you could have. I know there are players that are using SD chips and I know some of those are fairly large in capacity. I think that would be a nice option to the "Backpack HD".
Rev. Ronald G.
Reply author: Zithromax
Replied on: 06/02/2006 9:56:21 PM
Message:
If NA really did care to release the N3, it would have been done by now. I doubt it's a personal attack on former Neuros owners or for just not caring. They probably think that there is greater interest in the general market for the Recorder or the 442 than the Neuros and therefore, they can make more money. I personally couldn't care less about the 442 or the recorder and I too noticed how many other things they have made since the last Neuros. At this rate I doubt the N3 will ever exist. I recommend everyone just buy something else. There's a lot of options out there and there's probably something that will work for you.
Reply author: carl
Replied on: 06/02/2006 10:55:13 PM
Message:
Reverend,
In a year -> year and a half, there will be even more options than there are now. Here's an example:
http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6535687.html
And we should also have bluetooth built in (imagine bluetooth headphones ... no wires ... mmmmmm).
Carl.
Reply author: mdt123
Replied on: 06/05/2006 11:46:14 AM
Message:
As bummed as I was to hear JB say the N3 is at least another year away, I do appreciate that he was honest about it. I think it's got to be so hard for any company to compete with the iPod. Most folks have no idea what an "MP3 player" is, but at the same time, they all know about the iPod. And that's what they buy and that's what they buy their kids, etc, etc. Heck, people ask if my NII is an iPod all the time! I also think most of those people say the sound from theirs is great. Whatever; some of us do know the difference. I love my NII, but I want to get my hands on the N3 as much as everyone else here. I'm pretty sure I am going to wait for it too. I'm not happy about this news, but what are we going to do? I guess buy a different player, complain a little more or wait it out. DI knows there are a bunch of us waiting, but they have to run a business. I just hope they decide to offer that trade-in deal for those of us who have been waiting for so long.
(mdt)
Reply author: RevRon
Replied on: 06/05/2006 7:49:55 PM
Message:
After the initial shock of the time delay and the lack of information about the status, I too was pleased that Joe was honest and coming out with a timeframe. I also know that the timeframe can shift; maybe longer and maybe shorter (I pray that it will be shorter.) After all, who knows what the future holds and with all the work being accomplished on the 442 and the R3, the N3 could be right around the corner!
I too will wait for the N3. I will appreciate it much, MUCH more when I get it because the potential of it will be greater the longer we wait for it. Look at how fast the computer industry is growing and developing; the N3’s technology will advance just as rapidly. I know the market share might not be as great, but then again, word-of-mouth can do a lot for a product, and loyal "fans" of Neuros can really generate a lot of positive energy! Let's all start focusing on the "best" N3 that the Neuros Team can, and will, create. By holding that vision in our "collective consciousness" we'll create the environment for a perfect mp3 player to come out soon. Also, by keeping up beat and positive, we can generate "good vibes" that will go out into the Universe and create that perfect N3 sooner rather than later. (Yes, I'm a New Thought minister and we look for the good in everything! )
Rev. Ronald G.
Reply author: mdt123
Replied on: 06/13/2006 3:29:02 PM
Message:
Ahh, the religion of "healthy-mindedness". Let's change our experience by changing our thinking. Good vibes never hurt anyone. So maximize your potential and vibe away Rev! I'll do the same.
Reply author: JoeBorn
Replied on: 06/20/2006 6:50:01 PM
Message:
It really does pain me to dissapoint you guys. As you know, I take this stuff very personally. I also recognize that many of you would feel "abandon," and believe me, that factored very heavily into our thinking. There was an enormous amount of thought and discussion (more of which should have been online but it just happened to be in-person meetings, etc).
In a nutshell, all of us agree that there continues to be a great unserved area of the market for the N3. And the MP3 market is absolutely massive. The real trouble is that the standard for success is really "masterpiece." The iPod is on Gen 5 now and they've squeezed every cubic millimeter out of the thing, not to mention the effort that's gone into the firmware and software (and iTMS).
None of that is said to mean that we can't compete. We're all firm beilevers that we can. There's a good chunk of users that just want drag and drop and to eliminate iTunes altogether, a good chunk don't want to iTMS either, etc. etc. There's no question that we don't need (or want) to duplicate what Apple (or the rest of the market) is doing. At the same time, we do need to have parity with them on a lot of areas and that's simply not something we currently have the resources to do. The Recorder and 442 are growing our business and allowing us to add those resources. The 442 was just a lot easier to develop because we're using the housing and mechanical that the factory had already built. Again, that housing is solid and high quality and adequate, but hardly the masterpiece level required for the N3.
It's painful, and more painful for me than anyone, I can promise that, but I do believe it's the right thing to do. I won't say there aren't other alternatives, there are, but overall I believe this is the right choice.
jborn (at) neurosaudio.com
Reply author: carl
Replied on: 06/24/2006 04:42:34 AM
Message:
Wow. Thanks for the heartfelt update Joe. I believe that's all we were asking for was just some sort of understanding behind the slow development of the N3. After reading that comment, I'm going to hold off purchasing another mp3 player for a while (heck I've waited this long =) and will keep monitoring the forums because I really do want to buy a Neuros masterpiece.
Carl.
Reply author: RevRon
Replied on: 06/24/2006 05:03:22 AM
Message:
I agree with Carl, Joe!
Thank you for your input and unwavering support in the quest for a perfect MP3 player. Neuros truly is a "Masterpiece" on all levels, and just like the masterpieces of old which took time to create, the N3 will be a classic as well!
Rev. Ronald G.
Reply author: degauss
Replied on: 07/01/2006 12:28:44 AM
Message:
Ya know, I still have and love my N1. Battery still chugging away and sounds as good as ever. As I'm a roadwarrior and travel weekly I get sniggers from the iPOD guys all the time...unil they hear my ogg vorbis playback through the Bose NC headphones. I'm kinda unique in my electronics buying. I tend to use stuff until it's broken. Then I buy something new. Waiting for N3 seems like a good way to go for me too.
What's that oshifer? I swear dat light wuz ernch.
Reply author: mdt123
Replied on: 07/11/2006 12:40:38 PM
Message:
I feel 'ya Joe. You got to do what you got to do. If Neuros can't stay afloat, then there will be no N3 to look forward to. Thanks for the updates though. Like the rest of us here, I eagerly await the unveiling of the N3, but I really can't complain about my NII. I used to complain about the size, but I'm over it. I love the thing! I use it daily and will, proudly, continue to. All I ask is that you leave us a note, every now and again, to let us know what's up with the N3. - Thanks
Reply author: RevRon
Replied on: 07/11/2006 1:01:51 PM
Message:
Yes please do keep us updated from time-to-time Joe and let us know you're still thinking about the N3, even though it might not be a in the front most portion of your agenda. There are some diehards in this N3 Group, me being the "hardest", so know we're still out here anticipating!
Rev. Ronald G.
Reply author: chad(at)gambit.net
Replied on: 07/28/2006 1:12:58 PM
Message:
Joe,
You know, if a lot of these design choices are happening in meetings and you'd like to share them with everyone online, why not podcast design meetings? Set up a topic header so responses can go under each respective "episode"?
I'd say "Neurocast" it, but that's something entirely different and cooler. :P
Reply author: CallMeDrWorm
Replied on: 07/29/2006 1:59:04 PM
Message:
Thanks again Joe for the post. I still have my Neuros I and love it. I've dropped it a few times. Use it almost everyday at work. Again if the other things 422 and recorder are making you guys money to support the N3, then I say go ahead with them. I personally see no market myself for them. But who am I. I'll wait for the N3. Look forward to future post. Thanks again.
What are you looking at?
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