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orion7
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12 Posts |
 Posted - 08/31/2005 : 11:18:09 AM
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Hi all,
Hope this hasn't been asked before. I saw the discussion about alternate voltage/amp ratings that might be applied to charge the NII.
I just got off the phone with Neuros support about my NII repair. My unit had locked up while Neurocasting in my car and charging through the supplied car adapter. Support told me that they suspected that a surge, possibly due to running AC, had "fried" my unit. I was basically told that the Neuros supplied car adapter isn't really adequate to protect the unit from such a surge, and that I should by a better car adapter with better surge protection. Support, however, could not recommend a particular adapter that is compatible with the NII.
So is anyone is using a third-party car adapter with surge protection that won't "fry" my NII?
Also, if someone from Neuros is listenning: why does Neuros supply a car adapter that is known to damage the player? At the very least it would seem better to not supply a car adapter at all until a safe solution can be provided.
And, for someone smarter than me: why is the Neuros susceptible to these kinds of surges when cell phones, pda's, walkmen, and iPod's and such aren't?
In the meantime, I have a DC->AC converter that provides a regular AC outlet from the DC aux power in my car. When I get my NII back (for the second time) I'll probably try using that with the wall-wart.
Thanks for any help.
Cheers! |
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mdt123
Posting is for Closers
76 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2005 : 12:46:58 PM
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My Neuros recently started behaving strangely - long shut down, Error Code:0x785C, forced to Up/Play to shut down because when I press "play to restart" like it says, the Error just comes back. Happens when it shuts itself down as well. And if I don't notice that, the battery is dead by morning because it's stuck on the Error screen. I need to 1/5/play and format the NAND every time. That could be once to half a dozen times throughout the day. I can't keep any pre-sets. It's a little frustrating. The 3rd bar of the battery icon is usually flickering as well.
What's interesting, is that I recently started driving our newer SUV; not the old Corolla that I usually drive. I think I've only used the car adapter 2 or 3 times, but I have used it. I never would have made this connection. I won't use the adapter any more, that's for sure. But I really would like a recommendation for one that's safe. Or tips if anyone knows of another problem that could be causing these glitches. Thanks |
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Outlaw
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4 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 10:27:29 AM
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| The Neuros car adapter does not have any type of surge suppressor, it's just a fuse, if you use the car adapter to charge and broadcast the Neuros HD with the AC on, you could blow the fuse in the adapter and fry the Neuros HD. |
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orion7
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12 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2005 : 11:06:48 AM
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Thanks Outlaw. that's exactly what Neuros support told me. but it still leaves me curious and seaking some enlightenment:
Does the common car adapter that you buy for a cell phone a surge protector? A surge protector would be a circuit breaker instead of a fuse right? And a car adapter with a circuit breaker should have a reset button on it to push in the event that the breaker gets thrown, like many power strips with surge protection. I've never seen a car adapter with a reset button it. I don't think that any of the various car adapters for the various cell phones that i've used have had a surge protector, and i've never "fried" a cell phone, nor heard of anyone else who has. please share stories, because right now it seems to me to be a problem exclusive to this neuros, and i just don't understand that.
i'm also confused about the functionality of the fuse in the car adapter. isn't the point of the fuse to protect the electronics from a surge? i think of it as a one time ciruit breaker, and when the fuse blows, it shouldn't be sending any electricity to the unit. is it just that a power surge can pass through the fuse long enough before it blows to do damage?
almost as if the Neuros supplied car adapter doesn't have a fuse at all. has anyone openned it up and replaced the fuse? well, that's probably been discussed before, i'll look around...
i also don't know why Neuros supplies a potentially lethal car adapter, and why they can't, at the least, suggest a car adapter with adequate surge protection that will mate with the unit.
so what's the concensus solution?
1) Buy a new car adapter. (where can i find one?)
2) Never charge in the car with the AC on.
3) Never charge in the car. |
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orion7
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12 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2005 : 08:21:05 AM
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Well I got my NII back yesterday, but this time Neuros didn't ship back my car adapter! Lol, I guess it's a start. Hope they're are working on a solution though. I haven't been able to find a 12v car adapter with built in surge protection. For now I'm just going to use this thing, which I've had for a while for travelling with my laptop, with the wall-wart:
http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/CPS120SI.asp
Is anyone else curious about my earlier questions? Or am I just an idiot? I'm no EE, so the later wouldn't surprise me. |
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alien04
Posting is for Closers
68 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2005 : 12:00:37 PM
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I'm surprised at the response you got from Support, primarily since I've used the supplied charger in the car extensively - with the AC running, secondly because I have to wonder, "What were they thinking by supplying an adapter that's likely to fry the device? That seems irresponsible."
If you're determined to find an alternate charger - it does NOT have to output 12 volts (the wall charger only outputs 9v). So look for a car charger with regulated 9v output. Or if your in money spending mode get a charger for a laptop computer, they are reasonably well regulated and can be set to output a range of voltages.
Good luck,
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guttrhead(at)gmail.com
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399 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2005 : 12:19:38 PM
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| Its not the car charger that frys the device, its the lighter port. If your port receives a power surge or something, the power adapter does not have a fuse to stop it. The damage does not come as a result of the adapter, it is from a malfunctioning lighter port. |
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alien04
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68 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2005 : 8:38:20 PM
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I understand that, as, I'm sure do Neuros technical people. So it begs the question, why use a "straight thru wire" in an environment that is "known" subject to surges.
BTW - a fuse won't stop a surge, in fact there IS a fuse in the adapter. How do you get to the conclusion that the lighter port was malfunctioning?
quote:
Originally posted by guttrhead(at)gmail.com
Its not the car charger that frys the device, its the lighter port. If your port receives a power surge or something, the power adapter does not have a fuse to stop it. The damage does not come as a result of the adapter, it is from a malfunctioning lighter port.
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guttrhead(at)gmail.com
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399 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2005 : 08:05:37 AM
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I didnt realize the adapter had a fuse. most of the ones I've seen shipped along with products dont. I use a different car adapter than the stock one and I didn't remember seeing a fuse when I use to use it.
I came to the conclusion that the lighter port was malfunctioning because it was sending surges. One that functions right should be pretty consistant in the power it sends.
The purpose of a fuse is to stop surges. The filament melts due to increased current flow and breaks the circuit so the current is cut off. Maybe the fuse in the adapter is too strong to break before damage is done to the player if a surge occurs. |
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alien04
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68 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2005 : 09:06:36 AM
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Remember the origin of the lighter outlet - it is to power a cigar lighter, a pretty rugged "heater". And its been adapted to provide power to a diverse set of devices because nothing else is available inside a car that provides power. There was no need for the auto manufactures to protect the outlet from power surges that exist naturally due to various loads starting and stopping - they can put on blinders and say, "The outlet is there for lighters only."
A fuse can't react as quickly as a semiconductor device, so in the time that a semiconductor is blown, the fuse won't react; also, keep in mind that the fuse is not there to protect the load; its purpose is to protect the car's wiring from overheating and causing a fire.
It therefore behooves a supplier of electronic devices to take into account potential power threats, and build adapters to regulate and mitigate those threats. The adpters that come with laptops do that, Neuros could have done if they felt it was a real concern, and it need not be expensive.
Despite all the above, I've been using the Neuros supplied adapter with no problems - its possible that my car has some regulation for its lighter socket, but I doubt it.
quote:
Originally posted by guttrhead(at)gmail.com
I didnt realize the adapter had a fuse. most of the ones I've seen shipped along with products dont. I use a different car adapter than the stock one and I didn't remember seeing a fuse when I use to use it.
I came to the conclusion that the lighter port was malfunctioning because it was sending surges. One that functions right should be pretty consistant in the power it sends.
The purpose of a fuse is to stop surges. The filament melts due to increased current flow and breaks the circuit so the current is cut off. Maybe the fuse in the adapter is too strong to break before damage is done to the player if a surge occurs.
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orion7
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12 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2005 : 12:16:40 PM
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My Acura TSX does not come with a cigarette lighter, but it does provide 2 DC aux power outlets, designed to power various electronics. I doubt that my outlets are surgeing because I did not damage the Neuros car adapter and I've never damaged two other car adapters that i've used with my cell phones, and i've never damaged my cell phones. also, the sudden death of my NII doesn't seem uncommon around here and from the descriptions doesn't seem to only occur when plugged into to auto outlets. But even if it is that my auto outlets, like on many vehicles, commonly surge due to lax design requirments, why is the Nueros so much more susceptible to damage than other devices. Or is it just that the car adapter you get with a cell phone is that much more sophisticated than the one that comes from Neuros? That really doesn't seem the case to me, but I could accept it. Has anyone else had any other electronic damaged by the car adapter?
guttrhead, you said that you don't use the Neuros provided adapter. What do you use? That's the main answer i'm looking for, which Neuros support couldn't answer for me. THANKS! |
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guttrhead(at)gmail.com
Posting Mania
399 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2005 : 12:50:35 PM
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Yes, the origin of the port was for lighters but manufactures know that they're not only used for that. Many of the manufacturers actually call it a power port now, so i assume there is something there to control current. Lost of larger cars have multiple ports. I'm sure they dont expect you to use 2 lighters at the same time.
Fuses can be as fast as semiconductors. I don't know if the one in the dc adaptor is, but it is supposed to be the weakest point in the circuit, failing before any other part is damaged. The fuse in the adapter is there to protect the neuros, regardless of whether or not it does it well, not the car wires. The fuses in the cars fuse box are there to do that job.
The adapter I use is some generic one i found in the bargain bin at office depot or somewhere like that years ago that had changable tips and voltage settings. No idea who makes it. |
Edited by - guttrhead(at)gmail.com on 09/09/2005 12:54:17 PM |
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arkla_arkla
Posting is for Closers
25 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2005 : 7:33:45 PM
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The adapter I got has no fuse, it's a straight through connection.
I asked the other question about tolerance, and after feeling how hot the neuros got on the boat, i'm not going to use the car adapter anymore. I can't stand listening to the terrible quality audio from Neurocast anyway.
guttrhead - it's an interesting perspective that you have.
Are you saying the "adapter" is not at fault because it's sh*t?
that would follow on to saying - Nueros is not at fault for supplying a sh*t adapter, and therefore shouldn't have repaired orion7's Unit.
He should have had his lighter socket repair it.
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guttrhead(at)gmail.com
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399 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2005 : 08:15:12 AM
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| If the death of this neuros is the result of a surge, then the fault lies somewhere in the car's electrical system for casuing the surge in the first place. The adapter wont cause a surge unless its damaged and shorts out. In a properly functioning circuit, an undamaged adapter will work fine. |
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arkla_arkla
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25 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2005 : 4:02:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by guttrhead(at)gmail.com
then the fault lies somewhere in the car's electrical system for casuing the surge in the first place. The adapter wont cause a surge unless its damaged and shorts out.
Not if you are under the impression that you have been supplied with a car adapter that is more than a straight through connection.
When you say "shorts out", what do you mean?
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guttrhead(at)gmail.com
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399 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 08:00:18 AM
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Why were you under the impression that it was not a straight through connection. Did it say that it wasn't somewhere?
By shorting out, i meant that if some of the inner plastic coating comes off of the wires due to wear and the + and - wires touch. |
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arkla_arkla
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25 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2005 : 1:30:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by guttrhead(at)gmail.com
Why were you under the impression that it was not a straight through connection. Did it say that it wasn't somewhere?
You are right - In fact you made me think for more than a minute, hmmm. why was I under the impression in was more than a straight through adapter?
I really don't know. Maybe I assumed I was buying something of high quality specifications. Maybe I assumed that no design engineer would send such a delicate unit out into the field to be connected to car electrics without any protection. I shouldn't assume these things. It's a diverse world.
By shorting out, i meant that if some of the inner plastic coating comes off of the wires due to wear and the + and - wires touch.
So how would that damage the nueros?
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djodoyle
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Posted - 11/04/2005 : 9:13:30 PM
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Has anyone had any success with a DC-to-AC 3 prong adaptor and just plugging their 120V power plug into that?
If I'm not describing it correctly ... here's a link to some I found on RadioShack's website.
http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032157&cp;=2032056.2032136
Would these (or even the wall adaptor the neuros comes with) prevent the neuros from being fried like they were with the original car adaptor? |
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Oosty
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Posted - 11/06/2005 : 11:09:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by djodoyle
Has anyone had any success with a DC-to-AC 3 prong adaptor and just plugging their 120V power plug into that?
If I'm not describing it correctly ... here's a link to some I found on RadioShack's website.
http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032157&cp;=2032056.2032136
Would these (or even the wall adaptor the neuros comes with) prevent the neuros from being fried like they were with the original car adaptor?
Yes, I have used a power inverter. It works just fine and theoretically it should be just as safe as using your AC power adapter at home. |
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orion7
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Posted - 11/07/2005 : 12:42:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by djodoyle
Has anyone had any success with a DC-to-AC 3 prong adaptor and just plugging their 120V power plug into that?
If I'm not describing it correctly ... here's a link to some I found on RadioShack's website.
http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032157&cp;=2032056.2032136
Would these (or even the wall adaptor the neuros comes with) prevent the neuros from being fried like they were with the original car adaptor?
yes, that was exactly my solution. really had no choice after neuros failed to return my auto adapter after my last NII service. I linked to the inverter that I'm using above. Just a pain that I have to carry the AC adapter around with my Neuros. I guess I should ask them to send me a second AC adapter since that took my auto adapter ... |
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djodoyle
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Posted - 12/13/2005 : 06:12:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by orion7
quote:
Originally posted by djodoyle
Has anyone had any success with a DC-to-AC 3 prong adaptor and just plugging their 120V power plug into that?
If I'm not describing it correctly ... here's a link to some I found on RadioShack's website.
http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032157&cp;=2032056.2032136
Would these (or even the wall adaptor the neuros comes with) prevent the neuros from being fried like they were with the original car adaptor?
yes, that was exactly my solution. really had no choice after neuros failed to return my auto adapter after my last NII service. I linked to the inverter that I'm using above. Just a pain that I have to carry the AC adapter around with my Neuros. I guess I should ask them to send me a second AC adapter since that took my auto adapter ...
Hey,
Just a little update ... I bought a DC to AC inverter to power the Neuros in my truck and it works like a charm. The bad news is that I have to carry my wall adapter around with me. The good news is that I just saved a bunch of money by switching to Geico ...
Billy D |
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Alternate Car Adapter
