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cer2225(at)hotmail.com
Posting is for Closers
90 Posts |
 Posted - 12/04/2005 : 8:22:10 PM
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I have loved my Neuros for several years and was looking forward to the N3, but I really believe that there will be no N3. With the ipod as hot as hell right now I think it would be foolish to try and compete with it. What will the N3 do for 300 bucks that the ipod won't? Except for maybe the neuroscast, but you can get an adapter for the ipod to do that.
For years I have been one of Neuros biggetst fans, but I have to admit that I am getting a 60 gig ipod for christmas. Had the N3 been available I surley would have gotten that, but I can not wait any longer. Maybe when (and if)they start to sell it, I will be able to justify an upgrade from my NII. But it wil have to blow me away with its features.
I was never a big fan of the ipod untill recently, but it is pretty damm cool, small and affordable. As a niche market company, I really believe that DI would be foolish to try and compete with that. Oh sure, there will always be those that will swear by Neuros as I once did, and still do to a certain extent, but to try and compete with Apple would be a death sentance.
I still plan on using my NII for some stuff, as the audio quality is still the best around, but I don't see a N3 in my or anyones future.
Good luck DI as you did make a great product but your design to market timeline leaves something to be desired.....
Peace all and merry x-mas |
Edited by - cer2225(at)hotmail.com on 12/04/2005 8:22:46 PM
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losing faith
Posting is for Closers
25 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2005 : 10:07:10 PM
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I sadly have to agree. A year ago the N3 sounded cool and I was all jazzed up. However, after a year the specs are pretty much the same... but the market has changed drastically and once again I think the N3 will step out into a market outdated compared to other products. The target has changed and I think NA will have to adjust the N3 to be ahead of this. There needs to be something new brought to the table.
One of my concerns is the size of the N3 will still be big issue. I think NA needs to spend a good amount of time on space management and case design. A slim, good looking player can make a big difference in sales. If it's a solid player (which I believe NA can deliver) but doesn't look good or is too big it will slide to the wayside in the MP3 market. Who wants to sit on a subway or on a plane with an ugly brick in their hands while everyone else is holding slender, good looking iPod?
Sorry to give a negative rant. I like the Neuros, and I want to see this company succeed. I hope my opinions trigger thought and give a little insight into the mind of a potential buyer. Thanks and happy holidays to all. |
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RevRon
Posting is for Closers
57 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2005 : 04:13:39 AM
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In my non-technical and non-professional mode, I agree in the market point; however, I believe the N3 will be better than iPod for many reasons (if they stay on target and refine) because the machine isn't merely an mp3 player as so many that have hit the market. It truly is an "audio computer" and will offer a better quality of reproduction than the iPod market. Also, remember that it will be OPEN SOURCE which is a HUGE improvement on anything on the market currently! I believe with the quality of product as well as what will be "offered" even if the end result is slightly larger than the iPod "standard" 40GB model, the N3 will still "kick butt" in the open market place! Yes, I AM a diehard N3 prophet and follower of the cult of NA! <grin>
Ron
Rev. Ronald G. |
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keyboards
Posting is for Closers
38 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2005 : 08:49:48 AM
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| ipod still doesn't record wav audio through a line in or to any lossless codec as far as I know. This is the main reason I bought my first Neuros. I will do the same in the future. However, come on, DI! Give us a solid release date! |
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cer2225(at)hotmail.com
Posting is for Closers
90 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2005 : 10:18:38 AM
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Like I said, I really believe that there will always be a niche market for the N3. If built, it will certainly have some things to offer that the ipod does not; but is that a reason to spend all the time and money to develop it and bring it to market. I would have to believe that DI has already realized this and that is why we do not see any movemnet in its development.
I too love my Neuros, but is line in recording and open source along with a few other things enough to compete with the ipod? Sadly, I think not. Maybe I am wrong, but sometimes you have to jump ship instead of going down with it, and I believe that DI has done this. Those that are holding out for these "extra" features are such a smll market segment that DI can not justify the dollars it will cost to continue.
Like I said, I too love and will concontinue to use my Neuros; however, I am looking forward to getting my new ipod as I am sure MANY other Neuros customers have already done or will be doing in the near future.
Happy Holidays
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RevRon
Posting is for Closers
57 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2005 : 11:36:43 AM
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I had a 40GB iPod before I got my N2 and wasn't that impressed. It was very difficult to sync with a PC so I had to buy a Mac then with the music restrictions it really bummed me out. Then with my N2, I could move all of my mp3's from the Mac to the PC and upload with no problems. Then I found I could do the same with .wav files; needless to say I was in heaven.
Regarding the "new" iPods, they are almost overkill to me. I don't care about the "video" aspect of the music I listen to, so the "new" iPod isn't at all what I'm looking for.
I am impatient but know that when the N3 is available, it will be the BEST and EXACTLY what I'm looking for regarding the operations and functionality for my recording and listening needs.
I will save my money and wait until I can buy an N3!
Just my stubborn nature; I'm a Taurus <grin>.
Ron
Rev. Ronald G. |
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cer2225(at)hotmail.com
Posting is for Closers
90 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2005 : 12:30:47 PM
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Well the new ipod is designed to be PC compatable and as for the video, you can store and watch entire movies not just music videos. This would be great for out of town trips. I will have to wait to see how the actual functionality is but you had an older ipod and I am sure the new one is much more user friendly.
I think its great that you are willing to wait for the N3, and I hope it rocks, but I have a feeling that you will never get one. Thats all I am saying. You are the niche market, but I am affraid that there just won't be enough of you to justify it. Time will tell..... |
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RevRon
Posting is for Closers
57 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2005 : 12:37:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cer2225(at)hotmail.com
Well the new ipod is designed to be PC compatable and as for the video, you can store and watch entire movies not just music videos. This would be great for out of town trips. I will have to wait to see how the actual functionality is but you had an older ipod and I am sure the new one is much more user friendly.
I think its great that you are willing to wait for the N3, and I hope it rocks, but I have a feeling that you will never get one. Thats all I am saying. You are the niche market, but I am affraid that there just won't be enough of you to justify it. Time will tell.....
Joe Born, do you have any comments?
Are we (the hardcore, diehards) wasting our time? Please say we aren't and give us some encouragement! It seems like the 442 is going to be the "new" golden child!
Ron
Rev. Ronald G. |
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JoeBorn
Neuros Audio Team
Administrator
786 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2005 : 04:29:06 AM
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It's a good thread actually, and it does give insight.
I agree with some of what was said here, I belive that design and construction of the unit is absolutely critical, and I believe that the unit's openess and focus on audio are vital too. We also recognize that the space has moved forward considerably in the time since we launched the first Neuros, but fundamentally not that much has changed. Apple dominates the mainstream market, and trying to unseat them is folly for a variety of reasons. That being said, the size of the "niches" in this market are staggering. The digital audio player segment is projected to be $60 BILLION in 2008 worldwide. Every one percentage point is $600 Million. What segment of the market wants better audio quality? Recording, Gapless playback, open source? Our research has shown over and over again, that this small "niche" that has been largely ignored is nearly a billion dollar market.
The trouble is, as you mentioned, the bar is pretty high. I may want gapless playback, but I'm not willing to put up with a beast of a player to get it, so yes, the design bar for the N3 has been set high, and that's the reason that it will take more time to develop, we have to do it right. No one is more frustrated than me at the gap in the market between the N2 and N3, but we have limited resources and we do have to get out the next gen 442, and do that right, but please don't allow that to give you the impression that the N3 has been forgotten, it hasn't been.
jborn (at) neurosaudio.com |
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RevRon
Posting is for Closers
57 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2005 : 06:31:40 AM
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Thank You! I am an avid fan of Neuros and will not abandon it. Yes, diehard is a good word! I look forward to the N3 knowing that it arrives in its perfect time and exactly to meet the expectations of the market!
Ron
Rev. Ronald G. |
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The J
Posting Profoundly
184 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2005 : 01:33:01 AM
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There's still a good chance for the Neuros 3 in the audiophile and open source markets since niether of those have been tapped by the DAP industry.
I agree that it can be frustrating waiting for the Neuros 3 since it seems like not much goes on here. Not much has been said about the player--possibly because not much has been decided on. It's getting harder and harder to not replace my Neuros with an iAudio X5 or Samsung YH-J70. It'd be nice to see something about the player; maybe new info will help bring people back to these dead forums (sending info to places like DAPReview.net or AnandTech would bring people, too).
The biggest threat to the N3 is the Sigmatel chipset that promises to make any new player into a Rio Karma (much loved by DAPpers everwhere). It seems like it'll have many of the features the Neuros 3 will and should be out sooner. You can see more info here: http://www.dapreview.net/comment.php?comment.news.2458 (look at the comments for a PDF of the board info). |
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landsharkey
Likes to Post
11 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2005 : 12:27:14 PM
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Joe,
Is there anything we can do to expidite things? Are the schematics available for review? Is it going to be running Linux, Java, Rockbox?
Any other volunteers?
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The J
Posting Profoundly
184 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2005 : 10:54:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by landsharkey
Joe,
Is there anything we can do to expidite things? Are the schematics available for review? Is it going to be running Linux, Java, Rockbox?
Any other volunteers?
There's a Google Group about the Neuros DM-320 based products called "Neuros DM320". In there, there's mention of Rockbox being made for the Neuros III. I think NT is sending dev boards to the Rockbox group, but I don't think those boards have been released yet. |
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cer2225(at)hotmail.com
Posting is for Closers
90 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 09:54:44 AM
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Joe,
Thanks for your reply. Like I said, I too love my neuros and even though I am getting an ipod for christmas, I would still look to upgrade my NII if it comes available.
It certainly looks like you have done your research and have identified your niche market, but I guees my question is how long can you make people wait? I see there are already a few other products starting to tap into that market and from what I am reading on the forums, many loyal customers are already making the switch. That being said, your current customer base would be your strongest supporters and marketing guys for the new N3. and they are now starting to jump ship. Maybe you can pull them back before its to late, but this group is one that if you are serious about the N3, you can not afford to loose, and it seems that is what is happening. Do you really want to start from scratch in marketing a new product? If you loose your current customer base, it may be a struggle.
I know it seems that I am bashing you guys, but that is far from the truth. I was part of the test group for the NII and absolutly love mine. I still use it all the time, I guess I am just trying to get people to think about things. I hope there is an N3 in mine and everyones future, but I really think that unless your current customer base gets something concrete I think they will continue to pursue alternatives, and no one can blame them. (except RevRon, he is not going anywhere..LOL)
Happy Holidays all... |
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theFuzzyWarble
Posting is for Closers
79 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 2:53:49 PM
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Great thread, exactly what i was wondering myself.
I LOVE my Neuros!
Have since june 2003.
Since then I've self-serviced both the brain unit and the hd backpack. Upgraded it myself from 20 to 80gb's, fixed a faulting headphone jack and recently replace my N1 brain with the N2. Slick.
But, my little world briefly crashed in on me last month when my friend showed me her Nano. First impressions being, yeah it's really nice looking but how many songs can i fit? i have enough to do in the morning and night without selecting playlist on a daily basis. And how good could something that small really sound?!
But I couldn't stop looking at it, then looking at my Neuros.. it's like David and Goliath almost. Then I listened to it. I'm far from a 'golden ears' audiophile, but i know what i like and don't like and this certainly was an apple of temptation [pun intended].
Don't need the video one, already have a PSP if I neeed to carry video around, so the Nano was strong candidate.
But in the end, I held off and just replaced my dying N1 brain. The headphone jack was on its way out and wasn't up to desoldering and resoldering it again. My N1 brain will probably be used as a guinea pig, when time permits i'm going to try replacing the proprierary USB jack with a standard one before I try it on the N2.
So, for now I remain loyal but check for N3 updates weekly. My only hope is that the N3's Open Source community has a more active support base other than Garbage. One of the things I looked forward to owning the Neuros was feeling 'the love' when a new beta firmware was available. This is what I sold me on the player. Variety. As I pushed the submit button on my original order, I daydreamed of sifting through galleries of option I could add to customize MY player.
Today, I'm running with the 2.28.0137 firmware and instead of feeling the love, I sometimes ask myself 'Is this all it can do?!? I paid $438 to still have gaps and play a Tetris clone 2 years down the line?!', as I shove it in my jacket pocket which has a permanent sag in it from the weight.
'Back to trying to figure out this CVS..CCS.. MDB..LMNOP stuff' |
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RevRon
Posting is for Closers
57 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 8:37:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cer2225(at)hotmail.com
Joe,
Thanks for your reply. Like I said, I too love my neuros and even though I am getting an ipod for christmas, I would still look to upgrade my NII if it comes available.
It certainly looks like you have done your research and have identified your niche market, but I guees my question is how long can you make people wait? I see there are already a few other products starting to tap into that market and from what I am reading on the forums, many loyal customers are already making the switch. That being said, your current customer base would be your strongest supporters and marketing guys for the new N3. and they are now starting to jump ship. Maybe you can pull them back before its to late, but this group is one that if you are serious about the N3, you can not afford to loose, and it seems that is what is happening. Do you really want to start from scratch in marketing a new product? If you loose your current customer base, it may be a struggle.
I know it seems that I am bashing you guys, but that is far from the truth. I was part of the test group for the NII and absolutly love mine. I still use it all the time, I guess I am just trying to get people to think about things. I hope there is an N3 in mine and everyones future, but I really think that unless your current customer base gets something concrete I think they will continue to pursue alternatives, and no one can blame them. (except RevRon, he is not going anywhere..LOL)
Happy Holidays all...
And Happy Holidays to you as well! You are correct; I'll be "old and gray" by the time the N3 hits the market, but I'll be glad to say, "I got mine, finally!" <grin>
Seriously, I know what I like, and I really like the whole "feel" both physically and "metaphysically" from the Neuros. That's the one reason I'm so sold on it. I just wish we could get the N3 out sooner, but if I understand the whole philosophy, it's all based on the 442. SO, if the 442 and v2 iron out all (or most) of the kinks in the product, the N3 will have a smoother release (late as it might be, things happen and "innovations" occur) and it will be a better product for all the angst we are feeling currently! Also, if the 442 is the work-horse for both the MPEG 4 player and the N3, and the OpenSource really pans out, the N3 could revolutionize the geek-audiophile market. And being here at school, I see a lot of geek/techie types who are just the type to "take the ball and run with it". I've already got two of them waiting to get their hands on my N3 and do the "code warrior" thing for me. We're going to look at what the possibilities are for it and see if we can expand/improve on an already GREAT theme! Yes, I guess I'm a fan of the Neuros/N3 and it's all based on my personal experience of the N2... hum, does that make me a prophet then? RR
Rev. Ronald G. |
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Don
Posting Mania
435 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2005 : 08:05:35 AM
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Speaking of the market moving while we wait, my futurecast:
At this point, my Palm zire seems way ahead of any dedicated player in terms of user interface, flexibility of format etc. The only downsides are that the audio quality isn't so hot, and no hard drive. Hard drive PDA's are inevitable, so it is only a question of some PDA maker deciding to pop a few extra bucks on better audio circuitry/shielding.
-Don |
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Wonderbird
Just Posting
6 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2006 : 10:26:15 AM
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I just ordered my N2 and am looking forward to getting it... I own over 1,100 CDs and am in the process of ripping them all to OGG format...
I wanted a portable player with a HUGE capacity becuase I did not want to keep swapping my tunes out all the time...
I only had three HARD requirements for this player.
1> Good sound quality
2> OGG Support
3> LINUX Support
I was tired of looking for a player that met these requirements... While searching I stumbled across the N2 deal and said Oh Yeah - They were one of the FIRST with OGG support AND they encourage user involvement... (Open Source if I remember right...)
I could not click the "Buy" button fast enough...
(The 80GB size helped too)
As for the latest iPod... Does it support OGG? LINUX? Open Source? Since I got married and have kids now my music collection is not growing very fast anymore and I do not like much of the new music coming out... (And I sure do not want my music locked in to DRM junk where it is locked to a computer / device) Hello!!! I have more than 6 computers at home I want to be able to play my music from ANY of them... |
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Zithromax
Posting Mania
342 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2006 : 04:09:17 AM
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The N2 doesn't have Linux and the community effort on the firmware has cooled since TI didn't like the firmware being open source. You can probably still get ahold on the firmware source if you are interested in modifying it. There is one version of the firmware that became pretty popular and eventually there might be a new version. That is the Garbage version.
Then there's the N3...well, that's probably a ways off. |
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Is it to late for N3 to be successful?
