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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| jimson8 |
Posted - 11/23/2003 : 10:48:39 PM
I just purchased a Neuros recorder that I plan to use to record sound for broadcast on the radio. Problem is, although I have not yet tested the built-in mic, I doubt it will be able to record broadcast-quality audio, not because of poor file quality but because of the physical limitations of the mic itself (and it's awkward and difficult for me, as a reporter, to have to stick this box in people's faces rather than being able to use a microphone). In order to use a regular mic with the line-level input on the Neuros, I had to purchase a special cable for about $70 that amplifies the mic-level input about 20dB.
There's been a vibrant discussion going back and forth on several radio listservs recently about the need for a digital audio recorder with a mic-level input jack (it's surprising that it doesn't exist already!). Most of us have been using portable minidisc, tape or DAT recorders, but we'd love a reliable, digital solution where we'd simply be able to transfer the audio files into our computer editing programs rather than waiting while they dub in real time. Neuros should seriously consider including a line-level mic jack (with the capability to both manually and automatically adjust record levels)in future products. |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Ex-Navy |
Posted - 03/22/2006 : 8:21:54 PM
There is alot out there for mic preamps,
from another forum (R2 recorder)
Manibloke suggests:
Made by Kemo, http://www.kemo-electronic.de their part no M040
http://www.kemo-electronic.de/en/module/m040/index.htm
Sgelo suggests:
http://www.supercircuits.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID;=4123&HS;=1
I have found Minidisco.com to have some excellent products:
http://www.minidisco.com/mics.html
Designing any portable equipment, one must consider power requirements
Sometimes adding a small item such as a preamp can cut the
operating time in half for a portable device.
The heat is on to create high amp hour rated batteries in compact
sizes.
Some great suggestions in this forum!!!
Ex-Navy |
| Wolfgan |
Posted - 08/22/2005 : 1:39:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by clibgold
Been away from the forum a bit - I see that Neuros II has been discontinued.
Looks like the III will have a mic input - is this correct?
Can't wait... ;-) CG
I was doing a little research on portable recorders / players, and I like the idea of the N3 having a built-in mic preamp. But, will be also usable as a line-in input?
I mean, if I have the ability to hook up to a soundboard monitor, will I be able to interface directly to the Neuros 3?
Thanks, Wolfgan. |
| billybob77036(at)yahoo.com |
Posted - 07/18/2005 : 5:45:48 PM
Looks like my next decision for what I want will be between the N3 and the gizmo in the following link.
http://www.dapreview.net/comment.php?comment.news.1405
The NII was great for the time, but now recording is a huge part that so many seem to be missing out on, and it looks like N3 has great possibalities, that M-Audio thing has it down pat. |
| clibgold |
Posted - 06/23/2005 : 10:36:57 AM
Been away from the forum a bit - I see that Neuros II has been discontinued.
Looks like the III will have a mic input - is this correct?
Can't wait... ;-)
CG |
| arth |
Posted - 04/17/2005 : 9:03:53 PM
Hi,
I too vote for a mic input! I am checking out the Neuros, Archos, iRiver, etc. for use in recording meetings, using a mic preamp/mixer (such as from Rolls.com or maybe Church Audio). With a 20GB or more HDD I'll never have to worry about changing tapes or MDs, and I can just dump everything to my computer & edit into CD-length segments, and burn all I want. Oh a setup like this would have saved me so many hours over the years!!!
A few questions as I have never used a Neuros:
- Does it record from the line-in with automatic volume control or a fixed volume level? In other words, will the Neuros hike up the gain in quiet moments? Is this adjustable?
- Any way to tell if I'm overmodulating? Will listening to the headphones while recording give me an idea of the recorded quality/overmodulation, etc.
- What's the real world battery life for recording in both MP3 and WAV modes, from your experience? What warning will it give before the battery runs out?
- Also, for this sort of usage, which of the HDD voice-capable recorders is best, worst, easiest, etc? Neuros? Archos? iRiver, Any others? Is any one easier to use, quicker to setup for recording, more reliable, better quality?
Your thoughts and experience are greatly appreciated!!! |
| Matthias Halibrand |
Posted - 03/26/2005 : 05:18:42 AM
That's customer care! Church, if I should ever need a mic and I'm around Canada, you will have one customer more! 
Matthias
Liebe und Frieden ... |
| HALKAR |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 2:16:08 PM
If I could ask for a single improvement to Neuros, the addition of a mic. preamp would be it.
Carrying around a separate preamp is not always the best solution. Sometimes, stealth and simplicity override sound quality. Having to worry about two separate batteries dying is a pain. Having to deal with the additional bulk is a pain.
All I want is a high quality mic. input with amplification and plug in power like the ones on sharp minidisc units. |
| fretless6 |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 1:16:48 PM
I too am a musician that bought this unit to replace a MD for recording rehersals and shows.
I had an Audio Technica stereo condensor that provided good quality through the MD mic input, but the signal was far to quiet to be useful with the Neuros.
I ended up with hearing about this http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category;=3281&item;=5749134565 preamp through another poster on this board. I figured it was a lot cheaper than anything from sound pros, so I gave it a shot.
I ordered the one that comes with a stereo mic and I have had great results with the pre-amp, and not great results with the mic.
The church audio mics will only come in through the right channel, but the Audiotechnica mic works perfectly.
I suspected a cableing problem, and took it into the electral engineer at work for help. after 2 hrs of diagnostics on the cables, mics, and pre-amp, we were stumped.
I'm a little bummed that the Church Audio mics didn't work properly, but am gettting great results with the Audio Technica mic and the Church Audio preamp.
The 44.1kHz .wav absolutely blows the MD quality out of the water.
There are still some hitches to be worked out (for example the Neuros HD can't be on a hard surface or the recording skips due to vibration) , but I think it will ultimately be a far better setup.
good luck.
Edit: I also tried a different stereo mic from sound pros that used to use with my MD setup, and produced the same results, no left channel. Switching the individual Church mics indicated that there was no problem with the mics, and a DVM/circuit continuity tester showed no problems with the cables, but in the end, the only setup that gave me stereo was the AT stereo condensor. Chruch has offered to check out and replace any problematic components free of charge, which I will take them up on should further testing indicate the necessity.
I still don't know what the problem was ( strongly suspect a bad input in the neuros, but that doesn't fit all the symptoms!), just what actually works provided so long as the NII doesn't crash when I start recording
This setup had great potential, but I'm about one lost performance recording from going back to my MD setup. |
| sweetbus |
Posted - 01/10/2005 : 10:57:13 AM
has anyone tried this:
http://www.hotmp3gear.com/Microphone.htm
It looks kinda cheaply made to me but it might be worth testing out. |
| Schwilly |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 11:17:34 AM
there are great preamps out there that will fit in the palm of your hand and will not reduce the portability much.
stealth or die |
| Grinhooks |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 11:13:25 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ghavenga(at)riverview.net
I just bought a little Behringer 12 channel mixing board for $80 - which has stereo inputs/outputs, etc. - the line output of that is fine for the Neuros.
Yes, a preamp/mixer is the way to "do it right". It does give up a lot of portability. I have been using a little U-shaped napkin stand turned upside-down, putting the MD recorder underneath and the mic on top; took up about as much tabletop as a bottle of beer. I happen to own a Peavey mixer that is about the size of a hardcover book, and it does happen to be capable of running on internal battery power (big plus!) but using it and the "proper" mics would crowd & clutter a small bar table. It's also overkill for simply a way to turn up the microphones, but (sigh) it seems like no matter where you go, there you are.
I've got what I need but it's not yet what I want. I do still hope that Neuros or someone will put the (admittedly mid-fi) mic preamp into the unit, still leaving open a true line-in for hi-fi use and a simple built-in mic for basic use. That seems like a small step that would cover all gripes, and make for a universally useful gizmo. At the very least it'd make folks in this forum look for something else to grumble about! *chuckle* |
| Schwilly |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 09:39:36 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ghavenga(at)riverview.net
I just bought a little Behringer 12 channel mixing board for $80 - which has stereo inputs/outputs, etc. - the line output of that is fine for the Neuros.
I know this is added cost if you don't already have some mics, etc., but if I was going to use the Neuros for recording a band, I'd definitely do it that way.
any preamp is excellent for use with mics and a neuros, the options in quality and prices are pretty limitless
stealth or die |
| ghavenga(at)riverview.net |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 04:09:59 AM
I just bought a little Behringer 12 channel mixing board for $80 - which has stereo inputs/outputs, etc. - the line output of that is fine for the Neuros.
I know this is added cost if you don't already have some mics, etc., but if I was going to use the Neuros for recording a band, I'd definitely do it that way. |
| jbeale |
Posted - 06/01/2004 : 4:55:52 PM
Looks like SoundProfessionals is offering Neuros accessories with live recording in mind, eg. a 10-hour battery, storage case, mic preamp:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=search&item;=SP-NEUROS-RB&type;=store
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=search&item;=OTTER-3000&type;=store
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=search&item;=SP-PREAMP&type;=store
I'd guess a "mid-fi" mic preamp should be do-able, but I certainly don't know anything about the Neuros design internals. My previous post doubting built-in "hi-fi" or broadcast-quality preamps was just based on my own experience. I'd be happy to be proven wrong. Meanwhile I do think the market lacks an affordable, good quality preamp, and/or mic with built-in or modular preamp.
Electrically, the best place for the preamp is right at the mic. For the earliest recording gear, that wasn't preferred since the vacuum tubes were big, hot and needed lots of power at high voltages... the standards developed around remote preamps and it stuck, even though technology has advanced a long way. |
| Grinhooks |
Posted - 05/29/2004 : 6:17:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CUTR
Grinhooks, I see you are new so I repeat previous note that like you, I've been searching for a low cost way to improve mic recording of our band... I purchased the Radio shack Stereo, with equalizer and adjustable volume amplified mic (about $30) and it works fine send at about zero additional volume...
Bottom line, the on-board mic is usless at the high gain setting and low volume but ok at the zero gain setting...
Thank you CUTR. If the gain can be altered by firmware programming (that is, if the firmware doesn't just control a switch) then that'd be a cool improvement. I still think that a mic-level stereo jack & internal preamp, even if clearly marked as "mid-fi" in the owner's manual, would be very handy. I don't need super-fi recordings of my rehearsals and lessons, I just don't want it to sound like a Maestro Fuzztone. (winks to the other old-schoolers) I carry my current recording rig in an old clarinet case, and I like that.
Schwilly, thanx too for your response. I can see that if I went with the $99 preamp, the $54.99 binaural mics, adapters, power sources, etc I would get a much better recording.
If this problem is actually caused by inferior mic-power technology, can't we convince mic makers to improve? That is, if they don't get proper peak-to-peak voltage off a single AA cell, how about suggesting they design around a higher voltage cell, or multiple cells? Seems to me if it really was a mic problem, someone would've sounded the alarm and built more capable mics. Or maybe they do, and I just bought the wrong mic... sigh... Could some manufacturer please make all this simpler and less tangled?
Could Neuros do something in a backpack? Or, if it's really a space-vs.-noise battle, maybe Neuros (or a hip 3rd party) could assemble proper gear into a small Pelican case, with a handy dock for a Neuros, a bit of storage, AC or battery power...?
Anyway, Neuros has enough features for other uses to sell me on an entry-level model right now. If they make something that better addresses my main needs, I'll upgrade to that. |
| Schwilly |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 9:43:32 PM
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=search&item;=MM-ABUD&type;=store
stealth or die |
| CUTR |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 9:16:13 PM
Grinhooks, I see you are new so I repeat previous note that like you, I've been searching for a low cost way to improve mic recording of our band. The built-in mic is "portable cassette" quality. The biggest problem which I think they will improve soon is that the mic on has 2 gain setting...zero and too much. The line-in has multiple gain settings, but as you've heard, needs a preamplified mic. These seem to be either really cheap (and poor quality) or too expensive for just fooling around with the band. I purchased the Radio shack Stereo, with equalizer and adjustable volume amplified mic (about $30) and it works fine send at about zero additional volume.
People have mentioned but no one has yet tried the ARCHOS amplified Mic or any others that have been mentioned(in the inexpensive category). Bottom line, the on-board mic is usless at the high gain setting and low volume but ok at the zero gain setting and I'm pleased with the improvement with the Radio Shack gizmo plugged into the line-in wiht its multiple settings. |
| Grinhooks |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 12:55:21 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Schwilly
quote:
It's called DAT. Before HDD recorders it was the only way to record uncompressed wavs digitally with portable units.
Well if it WAS the way BEFORE HDD recorders, but now we HAVE HDD recorders, and that's what I'm asking about, then what's the current technology (or at least a couple years old) to move into?
quote:
The current Neuros would be fine for your needs. You can add gain over the line input which should be sufficient for the 907 if you are close to your recording source (your band). Mic-inputs on Consumer products are bad news. You probably know this to be true with your current MD. It is prone to distortion and overall suckage. If you really want a mic preamp, then by an external one. I can recommend some medicore to great preamps, anything is better than a Mic-in on an MD, even a DAT.
I'm not sure I understand your response here. The Neuros will, or will not, work properly with my 907 mic? I think you're saying that I can get a clear (but weak) signal with the mic alone, but would be better off with an external preamp. And as long as we're on the subject of preamps, yes please do suggest some specifics.
[quote]
Also, the most important part of any recording rig (imho, of course) are the microphone(s). A $200 stereo set of microphones will make your recordings immediately better. But I can see your desire to get out of the MD world. :-P
Hey, I'm just a musician - if I had the money and will to do this right, I'd go hawg-wild with a hot laptop, a snake, a buncha individual mics, etc. But for my utility usage, there's not enough left of my ears to care. I just want a modern cassette, not a mobile studio. The Neuros looks like it'd do that (and a bunch of other cool stuff), I'm just making sure. But someone will be curious, what mics did you have in mind? Thanks.
|
| Schwilly |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 4:48:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Grinhooks
quote:
Originally posted by Stephenn
I am with you on this though, if someone had put in a good mic preamp and bias on a MP3 recorder, I would get one. But the market for something like that is pretty small.
I too am a musician, and I'm looking for a modern replacement for my minidisk recorder to record my band's performances and rehearsals, and my private lessons & night classes. I'm sick of the dropouts due to media problems, and REALLY cranky about Sony's "protection" of artist's rights (the music is recorded digitally, stored digitally, there's even a USB jack, but I can only get my music back out of it in analog at 1x speed from the headphone jack!) when I *am* the artist! Gimme my music! grrr!
It's called DAT. Before HDD recorders it was the only way to record uncompressed wavs digitally with portable units.
quote:
Originally posted by Grinhooks
Anyway, I've got the MZ-N707 recorder and ECM-MS907 stereo mic. The mic has its own AA battery. I'd really REALLY like to use the Neuros with my existing mic for all my recording needs, preferably to .WAV format so it can be easily edited later. I'd buy that sucka right NOW, and according to conversations I've had with other musicians, they too want a reasonably-priced modern alternative to their tired old cassette recorders. I know we're not talking about mobile studio quality here, don't care - if it can record in stereo at all, it'd kick the tail off a cassette. Please keep us artists & students in mind, and give us a mic jack & gain control features (manual & auto).
The current Neuros would be fine for your needs. You can add gain over the line input which should be sufficient for the 907 if you are close to your recording source (your band). Mic-inputs on Consumer products are bad news. You probably know this to be true with your current MD. It is prone to distortion and overall suckage. If you really want a mic preamp, then by an external one. I can recommend some medicore to great preamps, anything is better than a Mic-in on an MD, even a DAT.
Also, the most important part of any recording rig (imho, of course) are the microphone(s). A $200 stereo set of microphones will make your recordings immediately better. But I can see your desire to get out of the MD world. :-P
stealth or die |
| jbeale |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 2:58:19 PM
Speaking as a circuit designer, it is simple to add a medium to low quality mic preamp (if you have any board space left :-). Many consumer video cameras, for example have mic inputs, but not usually really "high fidelity". A high-quality mic preamp is not simple to design into a digital environment: because mic-level is so low (microvolts to millivolts) and the human ear is so sensitive, you must take extensive measures to shield the noisy digital signals from the mic-level input. In my experience, high-quality mic preamps are not often found on compact, inexpensive mass-market products. Sony's minidiscs with mic input are not bad, but Sony's video cameras are much worse.
It is very impressive that Echo Audio Mia soundcard (24/96) got the performance they did at the price http://audio.rightmark.org/test/echo-mia.html but from the outset their board design could be focused on that kind of performance, and they were able to leverage design from other, higher-priced products, and a PC card has acres of circuit board real estate to use, relative to a pocket device, and it doesn't have a mic-level input.
My guess is if you wanted a clean mic preamp in a Neuros the entire system would have to be designed ground-up with that goal in mind, so you can segregate the more noisy circuits away from the input. But the goals of compact size, low price, (and judging from the forums, users impatient with design cycle times :-) push you away from that. |
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