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Cool4u2view
Neuros Audio Team
Posting Mania
3397 Posts |
 Posted - 01/13/2004 : 8:28:13 PM
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You can also try changing the gain while recording.
-Jeff
edit: Also, I mentioned this in another post, if you don't really care so much about quality for $10 from radio shack or <$0.99 on ebay you can buy this thing called a spy ear (I forget what they call it at radio shack.) Anyway, it is a listening device but you can hook up the headphone out to the Neuros line in and it works great as a powered external mic! |
Edited by - Cool4u2view on 01/13/2004 8:31:12 PM |
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powderific
Likes to Post
17 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2004 : 11:26:59 PM
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| I have a headphone amp that I use for high impedance headphones that is basically a very clean sounding op-amp. Would something like that be able to boost the signal of a mic to acceptable levels? |
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aidoc
Just Posting
2 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2004 : 07:36:55 AM
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*!bump!*
Just checking-in! I do every few months to see if Nueros has been fitted with a stereo mic input socket. I've been holding out on buying a solid state audio recorder until this happens. Can you believe that NO such product exists!?
I currently use my minidisk to record sounds with a stereo mic
http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?stk_code=micbsm3&svbname;=304
its ok, but your limited in many ways. (disk space, atrac compression, etc)
But I don't want to be burdened with having to carry preamps for the line in around - (not to mention making sure I always have batterys for it)
I will alwyas have the nueros with me for music listening purposes, If the only extra thing I need to carry are little mini stereo mics in my pocket, then I could record any sound I hear,anywhere.
PLEASE PLEASE implemment this!
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EricMatz
Likes to Post
20 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2004 : 09:00:52 AM
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| I've got a guy building me a mic with an in-line preamp that will hopefully be decent. I had to go back to using MD as well because an external mic just didn't produce a good enough recording since there's no preamp. A battery powered mic helped a bit, but not enough. |
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CUTR
Posting is for Closers
49 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2004 : 1:04:44 PM
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| In case you missed the post under features, I bought the Radio Shack amplified stereo mic with volume and equalizer ($34.95), use it at minimum volume connected to Neuros in line in with zero gain and get good sound from loud band practice. Quality is only a little better than mic, but having the ability to fine tune the recording level with volume control on Radio Shack device makes a huge difference. Still, I sure wish they had a mic-in as well as the line-in.. |
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Azraak
Posting Profoundly
123 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2004 : 04:41:44 AM
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There is an enhancement request for a preamplified microphone port filed in Bugzilla here. Also, there are some other topics on the forums discussing microphones that containing an internal preamplifier, such as a product released by Archos; search around if you're interested. I know that many are already aware of this, but please, please remember that most powered mics, unless they specifically state they are amplified to line level, are condenser mics which require power to operate. It seems to me that there are, relatively speaking, not many mics that actually include an in-built preamplifier. I would like to source one so I can use my Neuros for stereo recording, but I haven't been able to find one in Australia (don't really know where to look) and don't particularly want to pay all the costs associated with importing one from the U.S. I could justify it for the Neuros, but can't quite say the same for a microphone. :-)
Hey! This is ... finally... my 100th forum posting! Wow! :-)
Jamie |
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Grinhooks
Just Posting
4 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 02:10:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Stephenn
I am with you on this though, if someone had put in a good mic preamp and bias on a MP3 recorder, I would get one. But the market for something like that is pretty small.
I too am a musician, and I'm looking for a modern replacement for my minidisk recorder to record my band's performances and rehearsals, and my private lessons & night classes. I'm sick of the dropouts due to media problems, and REALLY cranky about Sony's "protection" of artist's rights (the music is recorded digitally, stored digitally, there's even a USB jack, but I can only get my music back out of it in analog at 1x speed from the headphone jack!) when I *am* the artist! Gimme my music! grrr!
Anyway, I've got the MZ-N707 recorder and ECM-MS907 stereo mic. The mic has its own AA battery. I'd really REALLY like to use the Neuros with my existing mic for all my recording needs, preferably to .WAV format so it can be easily edited later. I'd buy that sucka right NOW, and according to conversations I've had with other musicians, they too want a reasonably-priced modern alternative to their tired old cassette recorders. I know we're not talking about mobile studio quality here, don't care - if it can record in stereo at all, it'd kick the tail off a cassette. Please keep us artists & students in mind, and give us a mic jack & gain control features (manual & auto). |
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jbeale
Posting is for Closers
33 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 2:58:19 PM
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Speaking as a circuit designer, it is simple to add a medium to low quality mic preamp (if you have any board space left :-). Many consumer video cameras, for example have mic inputs, but not usually really "high fidelity". A high-quality mic preamp is not simple to design into a digital environment: because mic-level is so low (microvolts to millivolts) and the human ear is so sensitive, you must take extensive measures to shield the noisy digital signals from the mic-level input. In my experience, high-quality mic preamps are not often found on compact, inexpensive mass-market products. Sony's minidiscs with mic input are not bad, but Sony's video cameras are much worse.
It is very impressive that Echo Audio Mia soundcard (24/96) got the performance they did at the price http://audio.rightmark.org/test/echo-mia.html but from the outset their board design could be focused on that kind of performance, and they were able to leverage design from other, higher-priced products, and a PC card has acres of circuit board real estate to use, relative to a pocket device, and it doesn't have a mic-level input.
My guess is if you wanted a clean mic preamp in a Neuros the entire system would have to be designed ground-up with that goal in mind, so you can segregate the more noisy circuits away from the input. But the goals of compact size, low price, (and judging from the forums, users impatient with design cycle times :-) push you away from that. |
Edited by - jbeale on 05/26/2004 3:10:36 PM |
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Schwilly
Posting Profoundly
150 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2004 : 4:48:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Grinhooks
quote:
Originally posted by Stephenn
I am with you on this though, if someone had put in a good mic preamp and bias on a MP3 recorder, I would get one. But the market for something like that is pretty small.
I too am a musician, and I'm looking for a modern replacement for my minidisk recorder to record my band's performances and rehearsals, and my private lessons & night classes. I'm sick of the dropouts due to media problems, and REALLY cranky about Sony's "protection" of artist's rights (the music is recorded digitally, stored digitally, there's even a USB jack, but I can only get my music back out of it in analog at 1x speed from the headphone jack!) when I *am* the artist! Gimme my music! grrr!
It's called DAT. Before HDD recorders it was the only way to record uncompressed wavs digitally with portable units.
quote:
Originally posted by Grinhooks
Anyway, I've got the MZ-N707 recorder and ECM-MS907 stereo mic. The mic has its own AA battery. I'd really REALLY like to use the Neuros with my existing mic for all my recording needs, preferably to .WAV format so it can be easily edited later. I'd buy that sucka right NOW, and according to conversations I've had with other musicians, they too want a reasonably-priced modern alternative to their tired old cassette recorders. I know we're not talking about mobile studio quality here, don't care - if it can record in stereo at all, it'd kick the tail off a cassette. Please keep us artists & students in mind, and give us a mic jack & gain control features (manual & auto).
The current Neuros would be fine for your needs. You can add gain over the line input which should be sufficient for the 907 if you are close to your recording source (your band). Mic-inputs on Consumer products are bad news. You probably know this to be true with your current MD. It is prone to distortion and overall suckage. If you really want a mic preamp, then by an external one. I can recommend some medicore to great preamps, anything is better than a Mic-in on an MD, even a DAT.
Also, the most important part of any recording rig (imho, of course) are the microphone(s). A $200 stereo set of microphones will make your recordings immediately better. But I can see your desire to get out of the MD world. :-P
stealth or die |
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Grinhooks
Just Posting
4 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 12:55:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Schwilly
quote:
It's called DAT. Before HDD recorders it was the only way to record uncompressed wavs digitally with portable units.
Well if it WAS the way BEFORE HDD recorders, but now we HAVE HDD recorders, and that's what I'm asking about, then what's the current technology (or at least a couple years old) to move into?
quote:
The current Neuros would be fine for your needs. You can add gain over the line input which should be sufficient for the 907 if you are close to your recording source (your band). Mic-inputs on Consumer products are bad news. You probably know this to be true with your current MD. It is prone to distortion and overall suckage. If you really want a mic preamp, then by an external one. I can recommend some medicore to great preamps, anything is better than a Mic-in on an MD, even a DAT.
I'm not sure I understand your response here. The Neuros will, or will not, work properly with my 907 mic? I think you're saying that I can get a clear (but weak) signal with the mic alone, but would be better off with an external preamp. And as long as we're on the subject of preamps, yes please do suggest some specifics.
[quote]
Also, the most important part of any recording rig (imho, of course) are the microphone(s). A $200 stereo set of microphones will make your recordings immediately better. But I can see your desire to get out of the MD world. :-P
Hey, I'm just a musician - if I had the money and will to do this right, I'd go hawg-wild with a hot laptop, a snake, a buncha individual mics, etc. But for my utility usage, there's not enough left of my ears to care. I just want a modern cassette, not a mobile studio. The Neuros looks like it'd do that (and a bunch of other cool stuff), I'm just making sure. But someone will be curious, what mics did you have in mind? Thanks.
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CUTR
Posting is for Closers
49 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2004 : 9:16:13 PM
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Grinhooks, I see you are new so I repeat previous note that like you, I've been searching for a low cost way to improve mic recording of our band. The built-in mic is "portable cassette" quality. The biggest problem which I think they will improve soon is that the mic on has 2 gain setting...zero and too much. The line-in has multiple gain settings, but as you've heard, needs a preamplified mic. These seem to be either really cheap (and poor quality) or too expensive for just fooling around with the band. I purchased the Radio shack Stereo, with equalizer and adjustable volume amplified mic (about $30) and it works fine send at about zero additional volume.
People have mentioned but no one has yet tried the ARCHOS amplified Mic or any others that have been mentioned(in the inexpensive category). Bottom line, the on-board mic is usless at the high gain setting and low volume but ok at the zero gain setting and I'm pleased with the improvement with the Radio Shack gizmo plugged into the line-in wiht its multiple settings. |
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Schwilly
Posting Profoundly
150 Posts |
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Grinhooks
Just Posting
4 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2004 : 6:17:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CUTR
Grinhooks, I see you are new so I repeat previous note that like you, I've been searching for a low cost way to improve mic recording of our band... I purchased the Radio shack Stereo, with equalizer and adjustable volume amplified mic (about $30) and it works fine send at about zero additional volume...
Bottom line, the on-board mic is usless at the high gain setting and low volume but ok at the zero gain setting...
Thank you CUTR. If the gain can be altered by firmware programming (that is, if the firmware doesn't just control a switch) then that'd be a cool improvement. I still think that a mic-level stereo jack & internal preamp, even if clearly marked as "mid-fi" in the owner's manual, would be very handy. I don't need super-fi recordings of my rehearsals and lessons, I just don't want it to sound like a Maestro Fuzztone. (winks to the other old-schoolers) I carry my current recording rig in an old clarinet case, and I like that.
Schwilly, thanx too for your response. I can see that if I went with the $99 preamp, the $54.99 binaural mics, adapters, power sources, etc I would get a much better recording.
If this problem is actually caused by inferior mic-power technology, can't we convince mic makers to improve? That is, if they don't get proper peak-to-peak voltage off a single AA cell, how about suggesting they design around a higher voltage cell, or multiple cells? Seems to me if it really was a mic problem, someone would've sounded the alarm and built more capable mics. Or maybe they do, and I just bought the wrong mic... sigh... Could some manufacturer please make all this simpler and less tangled?
Could Neuros do something in a backpack? Or, if it's really a space-vs.-noise battle, maybe Neuros (or a hip 3rd party) could assemble proper gear into a small Pelican case, with a handy dock for a Neuros, a bit of storage, AC or battery power...?
Anyway, Neuros has enough features for other uses to sell me on an entry-level model right now. If they make something that better addresses my main needs, I'll upgrade to that. |
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jbeale
Posting is for Closers
33 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2004 : 4:55:52 PM
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Looks like SoundProfessionals is offering Neuros accessories with live recording in mind, eg. a 10-hour battery, storage case, mic preamp:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=search&item;=SP-NEUROS-RB&type;=store
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=search&item;=OTTER-3000&type;=store
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=search&item;=SP-PREAMP&type;=store
I'd guess a "mid-fi" mic preamp should be do-able, but I certainly don't know anything about the Neuros design internals. My previous post doubting built-in "hi-fi" or broadcast-quality preamps was just based on my own experience. I'd be happy to be proven wrong. Meanwhile I do think the market lacks an affordable, good quality preamp, and/or mic with built-in or modular preamp.
Electrically, the best place for the preamp is right at the mic. For the earliest recording gear, that wasn't preferred since the vacuum tubes were big, hot and needed lots of power at high voltages... the standards developed around remote preamps and it stuck, even though technology has advanced a long way. |
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ghavenga(at)riverview.net
Posting is for Closers
37 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 04:09:59 AM
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I just bought a little Behringer 12 channel mixing board for $80 - which has stereo inputs/outputs, etc. - the line output of that is fine for the Neuros.
I know this is added cost if you don't already have some mics, etc., but if I was going to use the Neuros for recording a band, I'd definitely do it that way. |
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Schwilly
Posting Profoundly
150 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 09:39:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by ghavenga(at)riverview.net
I just bought a little Behringer 12 channel mixing board for $80 - which has stereo inputs/outputs, etc. - the line output of that is fine for the Neuros.
I know this is added cost if you don't already have some mics, etc., but if I was going to use the Neuros for recording a band, I'd definitely do it that way.
any preamp is excellent for use with mics and a neuros, the options in quality and prices are pretty limitless
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Grinhooks
Just Posting
4 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 11:13:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by ghavenga(at)riverview.net
I just bought a little Behringer 12 channel mixing board for $80 - which has stereo inputs/outputs, etc. - the line output of that is fine for the Neuros.
Yes, a preamp/mixer is the way to "do it right". It does give up a lot of portability. I have been using a little U-shaped napkin stand turned upside-down, putting the MD recorder underneath and the mic on top; took up about as much tabletop as a bottle of beer. I happen to own a Peavey mixer that is about the size of a hardcover book, and it does happen to be capable of running on internal battery power (big plus!) but using it and the "proper" mics would crowd & clutter a small bar table. It's also overkill for simply a way to turn up the microphones, but (sigh) it seems like no matter where you go, there you are.
I've got what I need but it's not yet what I want. I do still hope that Neuros or someone will put the (admittedly mid-fi) mic preamp into the unit, still leaving open a true line-in for hi-fi use and a simple built-in mic for basic use. That seems like a small step that would cover all gripes, and make for a universally useful gizmo. At the very least it'd make folks in this forum look for something else to grumble about! *chuckle* |
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Schwilly
Posting Profoundly
150 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 11:17:34 AM
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there are great preamps out there that will fit in the palm of your hand and will not reduce the portability much.
stealth or die |
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sweetbus
Just Posting
3 Posts |
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fretless6
Just Posting
3 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 1:16:48 PM
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I too am a musician that bought this unit to replace a MD for recording rehersals and shows.
I had an Audio Technica stereo condensor that provided good quality through the MD mic input, but the signal was far to quiet to be useful with the Neuros.
I ended up with hearing about this http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category;=3281&item;=5749134565 preamp through another poster on this board. I figured it was a lot cheaper than anything from sound pros, so I gave it a shot.
I ordered the one that comes with a stereo mic and I have had great results with the pre-amp, and not great results with the mic.
The church audio mics will only come in through the right channel, but the Audiotechnica mic works perfectly.
I suspected a cableing problem, and took it into the electral engineer at work for help. after 2 hrs of diagnostics on the cables, mics, and pre-amp, we were stumped.
I'm a little bummed that the Church Audio mics didn't work properly, but am gettting great results with the Audio Technica mic and the Church Audio preamp.
The 44.1kHz .wav absolutely blows the MD quality out of the water.
There are still some hitches to be worked out (for example the Neuros HD can't be on a hard surface or the recording skips due to vibration) , but I think it will ultimately be a far better setup.
good luck.
Edit: I also tried a different stereo mic from sound pros that used to use with my MD setup, and produced the same results, no left channel. Switching the individual Church mics indicated that there was no problem with the mics, and a DVM/circuit continuity tester showed no problems with the cables, but in the end, the only setup that gave me stereo was the AT stereo condensor. Chruch has offered to check out and replace any problematic components free of charge, which I will take them up on should further testing indicate the necessity.
I still don't know what the problem was ( strongly suspect a bad input in the neuros, but that doesn't fit all the symptoms!), just what actually works provided so long as the NII doesn't crash when I start recording
This setup had great potential, but I'm about one lost performance recording from going back to my MD setup. |
Edited by - fretless6 on 02/14/2006 07:31:34 AM |
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Need Mic-Level Input Jack!
