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jahf(at)yahoo.com
Posting Mania
366 Posts |
 Posted - 06/09/2004 : 1:55:28 PM
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First, let me me say "I suck" ... I've had the ONSM site registered on Sourceforge forever but I haven't done anything with it.
Part of the reason I never got far was there didn't seem to be much demand, so let me float a related question based on K's ... IF there was a CVS/Sourceforge site would you do -more- with NSM?
There is one advantage to not having opened the sourceforge site ... DI knows exactly how many times NSM source was downloaded.
Last, I would suggest that given how well NeurosDBM has evolved and how many of us out here are non-Windows users (at least when we can be), that that is alot of why open sourced NSM hasn't taken off so much. I think the bigger juicier piece is an open firmware. I'm not going on a crusade about that (I recognize both IP issues -and- commercial compiler issues), just pointing out that I think that is where most hackers were hoping to see source code.
building an external antenna thread: http://www.neurosaudio.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1460 |
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kborn(at)neurosaudio.com
Neuros Team
Moderator
1520 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 2:10:21 PM
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Couple things, we actually don't have data on how many downloads we get of anything. I remember way back we had a crisis and we wanted to know how many users had downloaded it, but we couldn't get the numbers.
Firmware code... it's a catch 22. It's so much harder to release fw code, business reasons, competitors, etc. And it's hard to program fw, it really it. To be do-able, it would need an heckuva a SDK, and that's a lot of time we would need to invest.
So the catch 22 is that we're not getting all that much response to opening the NSM code, and that doesn't encourage us to really be agressive on the firmware code.
I'm not shutting the door on anything, I'm just saying the current thinking on the issue.
K
Neuros Support |
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jahf(at)yahoo.com
Posting Mania
366 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 2:30:25 PM
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No log files from open.neurosaudio.com? A quick grep would show the downloads unless the log is messed up.
Anyway, definitely understood on the FW issues. I mentioned awhile back a compromise option that might make sense ... instead of publishing the entire firmware (though that would be good), create hooks in the firmware where additional items can be loaded.
The idea being basically to have a documented API (don't get scared by "API", it doesn't have to be huge) and a stub somewhere in the firmware that can access user binaries. A simple XI menu option could be used to invoke the stub, and then users could write games, playlist editors, etc.
Not as encompassing as the firmware, but it would definitely be useful while protecting DI from competitors stealing ideas from the firmware source.
There would still be a problem with the commercial compiler not being available. Not sure how to get around that (JAVA! oh, sorry, work mode popped up) but a couple of options come to mind around either having this being done in a scripting language (ugly) or seeing if there is a way to getting a submission-based automated compiler online (hard) or seeing if there is a free compiler that can target the DSP (there was mention of this but I don't know where it went).
Just to be a good citizen, I posted an RFE about this on Bugzilla http://open.neurosaudio.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=223
And hey, it's not like we're all going to start saying "Neuros blows" if we don't get this.
building an external antenna thread: http://www.neurosaudio.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1460 |
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ghavenga(at)riverview.net
Posting is for Closers
37 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 03:51:11 AM
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I have downloaded the NSM code, and got my development system to compile it, but for me, the problem is that it's written in C# - I am fluent in C, C++, C++ Builder, Delphi, but not C#, and with my day job being writing Windows drivers and firmware, and also having a family, I don't have time to learn YAPL (yet another programming language).
Since Borland is being stupid about C++ in general, I DID try to use C# to do some test programs at work because we have MSDN, so why not use it, but found I could not call DeviceIoControl directly, so that just kinda blew chunks for me (I ended up doing my test prog in C++ Builder in no time).
I think it would be easier to get into NSM development if:
a) the database docs were updated to reflect the most
recent changes.
b) a list of desired mods/fixes was available (maybe they
are already in bugzilla?), that we as developers could pick
to work on. I would feel better about working on the code
and in a new language if I could start with something simple.
Also, in the GNU/Linux tradition, I would not release a binary for NSM without releasing the source at the same time. I have no interest in working on the code I have and then facing a merge from hell because I have to sync up to a new release that's a number of generations removed from what I was working on.
I think that if DI really wants to go open source, the NSM code and docs will simply live in a CVS/Subversion repository on sourceforge. DI can still exercise control in who they allow to post and what they allow to be checked back in, but keeping things in sync and freely available is definitely the way to go.
Also, it would be easier to keep up with DI's development because us outside developers could sync up more often.
Just my two cents... |
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darren
Posting is for Closers
62 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2004 : 10:03:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by kborn(at)neurosaudio.com
I'd also be interested to know who is plugging along with this, in general... besides Starkey? I'm not putting this in a negative light, but at one point I was supposed to be the liaison to the open source community, and I really don't have a sense of what is happening (or not happening), so it seemed time to check in.
Are you asking who's plugging away at NSM or any open source project? If it's the latter, then I'm still working on Sorune. I'd like to see an updated spec and possibly a XIM function list. By that I mean, function 0x24 gives XIM menu "X" and function 0x25 gives XIM menu "Y".
Why didn't I start working on NSM? I don't know C# and don't care to learn any programming language that ties you to a single platform.
-Darren |
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Cool4u2view
Neuros Audio Team
Posting Mania
3397 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 09:06:32 AM
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C# doesn't tie you to a single platform see "mono".
-Jeff |
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darren
Posting is for Closers
62 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 10:00:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Cool4u2view
C# doesn't tie you to a single platform see "mono".
If NSM works with mono or the other project that does C# (can't remember it's name), that's fine. But if NSM is developed only on windows with .NET, it's more than likely that something isn't going to work with other platforms. As I haven't tried mono or the like, please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm speaking solely from past experience with Microsoft's J++. I guess I'm still bitter about learning that implementation of Java. |
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kronin
Posting Mania
1144 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2004 : 10:35:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by darren
If NSM works with mono or the other project that does C# (can't remember it's name), that's fine. But if NSM is developed only on windows with .NET, it's more than likely that something isn't going to work with other platforms. As I haven't tried mono or the like, please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm speaking solely from past experience with Microsoft's J++. I guess I'm still bitter about learning that implementation of Java.
From the Mono Beta 2 readme http://www.go-mono.com/archive/beta2/beta2.html:
not all the functionality is available, most importantly the following are not supported:
* COM support of any kind in Unix or Windows.
* EnterpriseServices is only a set of stub routines.
* Windows.Forms is only available as a preview, and it is not meant for production use.
* Code Access Security (CAS) is not supported: missing in the runtime and class libraries.
I'm not sure if NSM uses Windows.Forms or not. Has anyone tried getting NSM running in Mono? |
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Chameleon
Posting Mania
1396 Posts |
Posted - 11/28/2004 : 6:40:06 PM
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I've built much of NSM this afternoon in Fedora Core 3 Linux running Mono 1.0.4.
Built:
Supporting Components- APIError
- NSMDataRecord
- NeurosMeter
- NSMMonitorIPC
- NSMAgent
NSM Synchronized- Graphics (library)
- NSM API
- NSM Shared
- XML Schemas (library)
Not Built:
NSM Synchronized- MP3ToWAVConverter
- NeurosDB
- NSM
- NSM Control
- NSM Data
I'm kind of stuck now on MP3ToWAVConverter because I need a reference that doesn't exist on my system:
Apparently I need NSM installed to get it, but that's not going to happen.
As for the NSM Control project, it wouldn't convert automatically, so I have to do it manually... There are probably some surprises awaiting within.
The others are referencing differences between VS.Net & MonoDevelop.
Overall it has gone very smoothly.
-- 'I switched to Vorbis and saved a bunch on my hard-disk space!' |
Edited by - Chameleon on 11/28/2004 6:45:51 PM |
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Chameleon
Posting Mania
1396 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2004 : 12:56:27 AM
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Well, I got a copy of the ASTAudioFileLib from Yono, but I can't add it to the project because I receive this error message:
quote:
ASTAudioFile.dll is not a valid .Net Assembly
bummer.
-- 'I switched to Vorbis and saved a bunch on my hard-disk space!' |
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The Perpetual NSM Source Thread
