|
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
jhanak
Just Posting
USA
1 Posts |
 Posted - 08/25/2002 : 11:06:53 PM
|
Let me share what I recently passed on to Joe...
Here's an interesting program that I've spent some time playing around with. I have some recordings of speakers that are only made available on cassettes. The TrailBlazer only has CD capability, so I've been looking for an efficient way to convert the cassettes into CD's. Not as easy a proposition as I had hoped. Sound Recorder in Windows is limited to 60 seconds; CD burner software presumes the input is in .wav .wma. or mp3 format; and I couldn't find a device that would handle the job (although I think Phillips makes a stereo system that has a burner integrated into it just for this purpose.
Anyway, I got a 1/8" to 1/8" stereo cable and used Ted's boombox headphone output directly into the laptop's mic input (although line-in to the sound card would be better and necessary for doing this with music cassettes). This software then digitizes the input and left me with huge wav files that I then burned into CD's. Of course, I could also convert those wave files into mp3 files if I wanted that format. Or, I could have found something to put the cassette player input into mp3 format and convert the other way if I wanted to burn a CD.
Perhaps you're already familiar with this or others like it...Here's the info...
PolderbitS Sound Recorder and Editor – Digitize your cassette and LP recordings and put them on CD using this utility.Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP
So this got me thinking (always dangerous)...what if...instead of the hassle of patching a cassette player into a computer...or instead of having to lug any external source of audio (record player - if anyone has one) to the computer to do this...what if the Neuros provided this solution by having onboard digitizing and conversion software? That way a consumer could take the Neuros to the source instead of having to bring it to the PC. Can the patch cord be handled through a USB functionality? Of course this would only work with the 20Gb version since the wav files are huge.
I suppose this really just speaks to the rational behind the open architecture and eventually having software designers creating stuff like this specifically for Neuros; but, I thought I'd pass on my bass-ackwards way of dealing with this issue!
|
Your quick response to this post: (0 total votes)
I agree (0%)
I disagree (0%)
|
|
|
JoeBorn
Neuros Audio Team
Administrator
801 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2002 : 4:23:29 PM
|
The Neuros can actually do most of this off the bat. In version 1 it can take an input from an output jack and encode that to MP3 at bitrates up to 160kbps, which is quite good, and better that most users use for mp3 files. If not version 1, then shortly thereafter, you'll be able to record directly to wav files avoiding any compression for you audiophiles.
in future releases (although not yet currently scheduled) it will be possible, either on the PC side or on the device side to break up the file automatically into individual songs. In other words the blank space between recordings will be sensed and will automatically break up the audio into individual songs. This functionality is currently offered by some third parties whome we can potentially partner with. Musicmatch is one for example. As John suggests, there are a number of third party applications that we could partner with today that support this type of functionality and help to clean up recordings as well.
Finally, we will ultimately use our digital fingerprinting technology to identify the title, album and artist so that that information will be automatically added to the file's metadata (or ID3 tags).
I'd be curious among the group how valued a feature set this would be.
|
Your quick response to this post: (0 total votes)
I agree (0%)
I disagree (0%) |
 |
|
|
danmail(at)netwerk-x.com
Just Posting
2 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2002 : 11:36:23 AM
|
i'm actually very interested in this feature, but i have some other issues. i currently use a coincident pair microphone setup connected to a laptop using a usbpre preamp to record live shows, and am wondering if i could ditch the laptop for a neuros.
so my questions are:
1 does the neuros support usb devices for recording?
2 is there a level meter when you are recording?
3 what is the time limit for recording? is it free space?
4 could it with a software upgrade record in ogg vorbis format? |
Your quick response to this post: (0 total votes)
I agree (0%)
I disagree (0%) |
|
|
|
JoeBorn
Neuros Audio Team
Administrator
801 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2002 : 7:22:07 PM
|
we only support analog line in for recording, our USB chipset does not support host mode, so it can only transfer to a PC.
We don't have a level meter, or automatic leveling yet, but clearly these are needed and we will be adding shortly, I'll be posting our wish list with estimated times of completion to the website in the near future, and this will certainly be on there.
There is no time limit, only free space.
And while I haven't looked at the detailed spec for Ogg, I would fully expect that we would be able to encode into Ogg with our current hardware. This will also be on the wish list.
Joe Born
Head of Product Development for Neuros
CTO Digital Innovations, LLC
jborn@neurosaudio.com |
Your quick response to this post: (0 total votes)
I agree (0%)
I disagree (0%) |
|
|
|
swinokur
Just Posting
2 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2002 : 2:06:35 PM
|
I love the idea of being able to use this device as a replacement for a minidisc recorder!
While you are thinking about the level meter :), have you thought about a gain control?
I don't know how much dsp/processing capability is on board this little box, but while I'm wishing, how about input compression/limiting capabilities?
-S
|
Your quick response to this post: (0 total votes)
I agree (0%)
I disagree (0%) |
|
|
|
dOMA
Just Posting
1 Posts |
Posted - 11/17/2002 : 10:21:30 AM
|
i'd like to use it too, instead of my current minidisc and dat based
field-recording setup. however for this it should have the following
features:
1. manual gain control
2. mike input jack (as i do not carry a preamp)
3. mp3 bitrates above 160 kbps (or if you plan to implement ogg
vorbis encoding higher bit rates could be introduced there)
4. a firewire interface (it is not crucial but would be nice)
5. digital out (optical or coax)
as soon as these are implemented, I will buy a unit. |
Your quick response to this post: (2 total votes)
I agree (100%)
I disagree (0%) |
|
|
|
oqmrk
Posting is for Closers
25 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2003 : 09:42:57 AM
|
I'd like to add my support for improved audio recording abilities. I think there is a significant market for a decent portable digital recorder with fast upload via USB to PC and one that can handle external microphone input through line-in, mic-in or an S/PDIF optical input. If you want an affordable quality digital recorder with decent microphone recording features at the moment you're stuck with minidisc but MD doesn't allow fast digital upload to PC.
Existing options at the moment are either very expensive, lack key features, or have reliability/technical problems. Look around on other bulletin boards and discussion groups and you'll see that there are lots of people pleading for a decent digital audio recording device to replace cassette recorders/DAT/ MiniDisc for live recording. Last year 2000+ people signed an online petition requesting Sony add fast upload to PC to future MD recorders (see http://www.minidisc.org/upload_petition_collected_0.html - read the comments and you'll get some idea of the range of uses and users). However, I think it is unlikely that Sony will add this functionality.
Basically the market is wide open for a quality, portable digital audio device for microphone recording and which supports fast digital upload to computer in the $200 to $600+ price range. There are a lot of different potential markets and users. Some will want/need more features than others. You might want to consider adding these features:
1. Decent dual channel audio level meters. If you have level meters then you can hook up a microphone (and external preamp if needed) to the line-in jack and monitor the signal to make sure it isn't overloading etc. If you add only one feature, add this one!
2. Mic-in jack with decent amplifier (Plug-in power for MD style microphones would be nice too!). Line-in jack is okay but it requires anyone recording quieter sounds, such as people speaking, to use an external preamplifier which will cost around $150 at the low-end (e.g see http://www.microphonemadness.com/). The higher end market (e.g. people looking for a DAT replacement) will probably want to use a high quality external amp anyway and would probably prefer digital input (S/PDIF etc.) so they can use something like a Deneke AD-20/Zefiro Inbox.
3. If you add a mic-in jack, add gain control, preferably manual gain control as automatic control compresses audio dynamics etc.
4. For higher end users (DAT replacement), you probably need to provide uncompressed recording e.g. WAV 48kHz, dual channel, at 16 bits at a minimum (some of these people at actually switching to 96kHz/24bit recording.) The unit will obviously need to support large files. For people looking for a decent MD replacement, then a decent compressed format with a good range of bitrates is probably okay.
|
Your quick response to this post: (3 total votes)
I agree (100%)
I disagree (0%) |
|
|
|
TARTZ
Neuros Audio Team
Administrator
200 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2003 : 2:40:04 PM
|
I completely agree with you. The first thing I did when I took one of these home was to test it's recording abilities by plugging in a stereo cable into the Neuros from my mixer. I plugged my guitar and mic into a mixer. Of course there were other toys such as pedals, preamp, rackmount FX processors..., but I really wanted to replace my sony MD. The first thing I noticed was a lack of gain control and level meters. I adjusted on the outputs of the mixer and recorded some good stuff with ease. I did however come back to work and plead for those two features. In no time at all our main programmer had the manual gain control up and running and gave me version of firmware that works great. We will be including that feature very soon in a firmware upgrade available for free download to the device. Next was the level meters. I haven't seen this one developed yet as I think our guys have been busy fine tuning other enhancements, but I'm sure it's on the way and shouldn't be too hard to create.
To your point of uncompressed data, I agree as well. If I have 20 gigs of space to fill, I am willing to sacrifice space for quality. I'm pretty sure we are looking at a March firmware realease for wav. recording. Thanks for your input.
Sincerely,
Tim
Neuros Customer Support |
Your quick response to this post: (0 total votes)
I agree (0%)
I disagree (0%) |
|
|
|
oqmrk
Posting is for Closers
25 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 08:17:22 AM
|
Hallelujah! The most attractive feature so far is a company that listens and is open and responsive to input from potential users of its products. You've little competition in that department.
I'd seriously think about buying a Neuros once the levels meter is implemented. Having manual gain control is nice but isn't essential as it is easy enough to add an external preamp. I'm going to need some type of external box anyway because at the very least I'll need a battery box to power my plug-in power mics.
Any idea how they implemented gain control? Can you change the gain while recording or can you only adjust the gain while paused/stopped? I also imagine the gain was done digitally, similar to the way it was implemented it on the Creative's JB3, as I presume there is no hardware/analog preamp built-in. There might be some disadvantages to the digital approach in terms of noise, dynamic range, etc. Seems like it would be equivalent to importing the digital file into Cooledit and boosting it 20db or whatever (i.e. you're boosting the entire signal including the noise floor). Doesn't really matter as I presume you can set the gain to zero and run an external preamp if you want to avoid those issues. |
Your quick response to this post: (0 total votes)
I agree (0%)
I disagree (0%) |
|
|
|
tjohnson(at)digitalinnovations.com
Neuros Audio Team
Posting is for Closers
61 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 10:35:37 AM
|
The level meter is on the list of things to do and will only be a firmware upgrade away.
The line-inputs, I believe, have gain control built in (in 1.5dB increments from -34 to +12dB) and can be adjusted real-time. We have test code for that already but still waiting on the level meters. The gain control is done in the analog domain prior to the A/D converters.
As for an external microphone pre-amp for the line-level inputs, do you have a solution? If not, how much would you be willing to pay? Is lossless recording important to you (it's coming)? How many consumers would be interested in recording with the neuros? Would you pay $29.99 for a battery powered pre-amp with analog controls (in addition to the controls on the Neuros)? $19.99? $9.99? Kit form? |
Your quick response to this post: (13 total votes)
I agree (100%)
I disagree (0%) |
|
|
|
oqmrk
Posting is for Closers
25 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2003 : 12:27:43 PM
|
That's good about the gain control. So does the line-in amplification use the same preamp for the internal microphone? How does that work?
Hopefully there will be a separate level meter for each stereo channel.
I am actually interested in recording interviews and meetings. The internal microphone might work okay for me but an external microphone often makes for much better recordings as it is easier to position the microphone close to speakers, especially when making a stereo recording and using a stereo microphone setup with two microphones that can be positioned in different locations. As the audio I'm recording isn't particularly loud I may need to boost the signal 20db or more.
There aren't many cheap preamps available. Archos makes a 'cheap' one that it includes a stereo microphone (about $50). It will work with recorders other than those made by Archos as well as other microphones and boosts the signal about 20 db (I think). If you want something with a little higher quality there are preamps made by Sound professionals (http://www.soundprofessionals.com/) and Microphone Madness http://www.microphonemadness.com/. The SP preamp costs around $150 and will boost the signal up to 20 db. The MM box will boost the signal up to 35 db and costs around $140. All these units will also power plug-in power condenser microphones (like the minidisc mics sold by SP and MM). I'd pay $150 for a preamp although a decent, cheaper alternative would be attractive. (My primary cost is transcription; the cost of the hardware is fairly insignificant.) For people who want to record loud music there probably isn't any need for a preamp. A battery box maybe with "bass roll off", will work. See http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=batteryfaq.
I have no idea how many potential consumers might be interested in recording with the Neuros. I do know, as noted in an earlier message, that there is a fairly large existing market of people who use minidisc to make microphone recordings and that the primary frustration of those minidisc users is that there isn't a simple and quick way to transfer their recordings back to computer. The people who use minidisc for microphone recording are fairly varied. There are people who record class lectures, meetings/interviews (journalists, business people, researchers), audio for mounting on websites, audio for radio broadcast, their own musical performances, their children and friends, etc. MD is very attractive. You can get a Sharp MD recorder for $200 with mic-in and line-in jacks, level display, and manual on-the-fly gain control. It's very portable. A decent stereo mic from Sound Professionals or one of the other half dozen companies catering to the MD microphone market will set you back another $60. And disks are cheap. And the audio quality is very good. It isn't DAT quality but can your ears tell the difference? If you provide the competitive functionality with fast upload (even USB 1.1!) that market is yours. If you want to read more about that market check out http://www.minidisc.org/ and the previous link I provided (http://www.minidisc.org/upload_petition_collected_0.html). If you want to check out public radio professionals on minidisc, including some audio productions that use MD, see http://www.transom.org/ and http://www.1stperson.org/.
At the higher end there are the people looking for a replacement to DAT and something more portable/cheaper than laptop recording. That may not be such a big market but a few months ago some of these people got quite existing when Creative Labs implemented level meters on the Jukebox 3. (The JB3, please note, can record in WAV format and combines optical/line-in jack, so can act as the back end for a high quality preamp with optical output such as Deneke AD-20/Zefiro Inbox). If you want to check this out read the laptop tapers forum here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/laptop-tapers/. Some of the people on the latter forum worked with Creative to test their improved firmware. Anyway not sure Creative has quite solved all the technical issues to their final satisfaction.
I think the problem with most existing digital recorders that are consumer-oriented, other than minidisc, is that they assume that recording will be from a line-in source such as a stereo deck. Sometimes they have an internal mic for "voice notes" but they don't take live recording with an external microphone seriously. Very few devices display the recording level or provide any type of gain control. I think it is to your advantage to cater to this market as it will distinguish your recorder from the flood of other flash memory and harddrive-based recorders appearing on the market in a way that will make the Neuros appealing to the lower-end consumer/professional digital recording market. |
Your quick response to this post: (4 total votes)
I agree (100%)
I disagree (0%) |
|
|
|
http://www.robomatique.com
Just Posting
1 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2003 : 5:37:48 PM
|
GREAT, RECORDING!!!
I am a musician/recording engineer looking for a portable device for recording and the neuros looks promising. I understand that it would be expensive to put a digital input to the unit but it would offer advantages that would be great for professionals.
So what is important to me is what A/D converter you use, model or just maybe just the S/N ratio. I don't really care if you can record 48khz / wav if the converters are bad, if your signal is bad the recording will be bad whatever. That's why it is such a great advantage to have a digital input, choose your own digital to analog converter!
I am also very happy to hear that you are putting the gain control before the A/D!!!
Answer from the neuros developers please :) |
Your quick response to this post: (2 total votes)
I agree (100%)
I disagree (0%) |
|
|
|
Dr. Confusion
Likes to Post
13 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2003 : 6:53:19 PM
|
I just wanted to chime in that the Neuros with:
1)Recording to OGG/WAV (line in)
2)Audio Gain
3)Level Meters
Makes a very attractive model for personal use.
Also for a forward looking model for our Media Lab as a digital recorder for interviews. I work with social workers who conduct a great number of interviews. They are looking for ways to move to the digial realm with out spending thousands on Marantz equipment, or betting that mini-disc will be a viable format in 5 years. An open-source codec/file format helps to ensure that the recordings will be accessible in the future.
Of course a mic pre-amp with limiter and USB 2.0 or 1394 would ideal, but even what looks possible now makes me want to run out and grab one ASAP.
Full speed ahead Neuros engineers!
-Dr_Confusion |
Your quick response to this post: (0 total votes)
I agree (0%)
I disagree (0%) |
|
|
|
TARTZ
Neuros Audio Team
Administrator
200 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2003 : 10:00:49 AM
|
Here is what I got from our techs on the specs, enjoy I found it to be some fascinating reading! -Tim/Customer Support
• High-Performance Stereo Codec
– 90-dB SNR Multibit Sigma-Delta ADC (A-weighted at 48 kHz)
– 100-dB SNR Multibit Sigma-Delta DAC (A-weighted at 48 kHz)
• Highly Efficient Linear Headphone Amplifier
– 30 mW per channel into 32 #8486;
A/D Converters
Dynamic range, A-weighted, –60-dB full-scale input 85dB (min) 90dB (typical) Total harmonic distortion 1 dB input 0 dB gain -80dB (typical) ADC channel separation 1 kHz input tone 90 dB (typical)
D/A Converters
Total harmonic distortion (1kHz, 0dB), -88dB (typical) -80dB (max) Total harmonic distortion (1kHz, -3dB), -92dB (typical), -86dB (max) DAC channel separation 100 dB (typical)
Stereo Headphone Output
0-dB full-scale output voltage 1.0 VRMS
Maximum output power, RL = 32 #8486; 30mW
Maximum output power, RL = 16 #8486; 40mW
Signal-to-noise ratio, A-weighted 90dB (min) 97dB (typical) Total harmonic distortion, 1kHz, PO = 10 mW, 0.1% (max) Total Harmonic Distortion, 1kHz, PO = 20 mW, 1% (max) |
Your quick response to this post: (0 total votes)
I agree (0%)
I disagree (0%) |
|
|
|
johnnybegood
Just Posting
1 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2003 : 08:12:50 AM
|
Hello guys,
Some people were asking about how interested would the public be in enhancing the recording functions of the Neuros. More specifically, some were asking if the people interested in MP3 players were at all going to use the recording function of the Neuros to replace a MD. I think that all of us here (and I hope Neuros too) have realized that MDs can be easily outperformed by a well supported MP3 player. The beauty of an MP3 player with recording capabilities is that it makes the transfering of sound files all the more easily between your PC and your MP3 player.
I am one of many persons that are restraining from investing in a MD because we see that digital recording to a hardrive is quite more promising than having to juggle tinny discs around. More than anything else, I am writing to voice my interest and support to enhance the recording aspects of your Neuros. I agree with Dr. Confusion that Neuros **NEEDS** to have the following:
1)Recording to OGG/WAV (line in)
2)Audio Gain
3)Level Meters
I am looking for these characteristics in the next MP3 I buy. I would mainly be using it for making personal memos, recording lectures, and conferences. The function of song identification is surely a bonus in this machine, but I think the above three aspects would kick serious ass and would put you (Neuros) on top of the pile.
I only have a question left:
How many hours of recording is 20Gb worth?
Thx.
JBG |
Your quick response to this post: (0 total votes)
I agree (0%)
I disagree (0%) |
|
|
|
Jeff Jackson
Posting Mania
428 Posts |
Posted - 02/14/2003 : 09:26:36 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by johnnybegood
I only have a question left:
How many hours of recording is 20Gb worth?
Thx.
JBG
Assuming I did the math right, at 64Kb/sec, well a tad over 678 hours (28 days, 6 hours).
Jeff |
Your quick response to this post: (0 total votes)
I agree (0%)
I disagree (0%) |
|
|
|
marvinspu36
Posting Profoundly
115 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 3:37:37 PM
|
A couple of other thoughts about the Line In recording features. I would like to see an Overload indicator, per channel, on the recording display that is very visible. Does the Neuros begin to go into clipping at 0 dB, or is there some head room? I find myself keeping the level on the low side to be safe. An Overload indicator would be very helpul.
It would also be nice to have the VU meter bar show the -20 and -3 dB points for reference, maybe as tick marks, since we don't have color LED's to do this. A numeric Peak Level indicator per channel would also be nice, or maybe a blip on the bar that has some persistance, or as a numeric display.
It would be great to be able to have the Neuros automatically stop recording after a user preset number of seconds of silence, for unattended audio book recording.
A very happy Neuros user...
|
Your quick response to this post: (1 total votes)
I agree (100%)
I disagree (0%) |
|
|
|
huges84
Posting is for Closers
50 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2004 : 11:16:08 PM
|
Hey, there are some great technical specs here about the recording hardware. They should probably be added to the features list on the product pages. BTW, since I know very little about any specs regarding decibels, could some knowledgeable person inform me how good a quality this relates to? Knowing DI, I'm sure they are pretty good, but I think it should be said just the same.
That was Zen, this is Tao |
Your quick response to this post: (1 total votes)
I agree (100%)
I disagree (0%) |
|
|
|
FrozenFruit
Likes to Post
20 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2004 : 02:43:48 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by huges84
Hey, there are some great technical specs here about the recording hardware. They should probably be added to the features list on the product pages. BTW, since I know very little about any specs regarding decibels, could some knowledgeable person inform me how good a quality this relates to? Knowing DI, I'm sure they are pretty good, but I think it should be said just the same.
BUMP!
How does quality compare to a TCD-D8 or the NJB3? Is there anyone who can interpret these numbers?
|
Your quick response to this post: (0 total votes)
I agree (0%)
I disagree (0%) |
|
|
|
Schwilly
Posting Profoundly
150 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2004 : 11:51:26 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by FrozenFruit
quote:
Originally posted by huges84
Hey, there are some great technical specs here about the recording hardware. They should probably be added to the features list on the product pages. BTW, since I know very little about any specs regarding decibels, could some knowledgeable person inform me how good a quality this relates to? Knowing DI, I'm sure they are pretty good, but I think it should be said just the same.
BUMP!
How does quality compare to a TCD-D8 or the NJB3? Is there anyone who can interpret these numbers?
they are comparable. I've offereed up numerous (ok, only 2) recordings using the Neuros as a recorder and adc
stealth or die |
Your quick response to this post: (0 total votes)
I agree (0%)
I disagree (0%) |
|
|
|
FrozenFruit
Likes to Post
20 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2004 : 11:31:59 PM
|
Thanks Schwilly- dug the Primus show.
My friend, Google, pointed out to me that the specs Tim gave us are VERY similar to the "Texas Instruments TLV320AIC23B Stereo Audio CODEC, 8- to 90-kHz, With Integrated Headphone Amplifier"
Check it out...
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tlv320aic23b.pdf
"The TLV320AIC23B is a high-performance stereo audio codec with highly integrated analog functionality. The analog-to-digital converters (ADCs) and digital-to-analog converters (DACs) within the TLV320AIC23B use multibit sigma-delta technology with integrated oversampling digital interpolation filters...
The ADC sigma-delta modulator features third-order multibit architecture with up to 90-dBA signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) at audio sampling rates up to 96 kHz, enabling high-fidelity audio recording in a compact, power-saving design. The DAC sigma-delta modulator features
a second-order multibit architecture with up to 100-dBA SNR at audio sampling rates up to 96 kHz, enabling high-quality digital audio-playback capability, while consuming less than 23 mW during playback only....
The TLV320AIC23B is the ideal analog input/output (I/O) choice for portable digital audio-player and recorder applications, such as MP3 digital audio players....
The headphone amplifier is capable of delivering 30 mW per channel into 32 #8486;....."
If this is in fact a match, then what Tim posted are the specifications for the stereo coder/decoder used in the Neuros--- Not necessarily the same as specs for the assembbled Neuros unit!
|
Your quick response to this post: (0 total votes)
I agree (0%)
I disagree (0%) |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| Neuros Forums |
|
|
|
|
|
Digitizing External Inputs
Forum Locked
