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Sean Starkey
Posting Mania
848 Posts |
 Posted - 01/21/2004 : 1:46:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chameleon
quote:
Originally posted by neuros(at)mkfifo.net
quote:
Originally posted by webkid
I think his problem was that he wanted Artist -> Album -> Play Album.
This is something I really need to be able to do on the Neuros. In fact, I might have waited to purchase if I had known in advance that this wasn't an option. Any idea when this will be possible?
I believe from reading this thread that the desired functionality should be available in OS/2 which is currently in testing and will be available very soon.
I don't know if firmware 2.0 supports the subdatabase structure as described in the thread you specified. Regardless, the sync software has to be updated to do such a thing.
Sean Starkey - Project Manager for Neuros Database Manipulator - http://neurosdbm.sourceforge.net |
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mgao
Neuros Audio Team
Posting is for Closers
93 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2004 : 1:55:33 PM
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No, OS2.0 DB structure will not be able to _directly_ support album under artist.
There is workaround possible, such as Album->Artist->Album->(play Album), or FW can be hard-coded to support Artist->Album with some software support. But none of this will be included in initial OS2.0 release. This actually is not a minor change, considering the NSM and all 3rd party tools change. |
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Third Rail Design Lab
Posting Mania
294 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2004 : 3:08:14 PM
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I believe in you mgao.
You will bring Artist/Ambum to the People. |
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Chameleon
Posting Mania
1396 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2004 : 3:57:23 PM
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I guess I read too much into that... My bad.
mgao: Have you ever heard of or looked into SQLite? It's an Open Source "Embeddable SQL Database Engine". Looks to only target x86 currently, but might be possible to port to the TI DSP.
It would be ideal for the Neuros to use an SQL engine and would allow nearly infinite possibilities for end users to somehow create any query desired in order to view/organize their music/files -- perhaps through the scripting language that may or may not be included in OS/2.x?
hehe, I guess it would have helped if I had mentioned it half a year ago...
Order Number: 2249 |
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webkid
Posting Mania
1590 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2004 : 8:25:18 PM
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There is a problem with that... how does NSM/NDBM/Positron communicate with the SQL database through a FAT32 filesystem? I would have to assume that either you take down the entire database file structure and rewrite it as it is now (which does not seem very reasonable, given major rewrites to already existing softwares) or some sort of "batch" would have to be written to the device, but then how does the unit communicate backwards while it's in "sync" mode? What happens with the USB 2.0 backpack whcn there's no brain?
SQL is great, but I think it's a little late, as you said. Hmm. But I imagine there will be a way, in time. |
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chad(at)gambit.net
Posting Profoundly
111 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2004 : 8:58:16 PM
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SELECT * IN 'ALBUMS' WHERE 'ARTIST' = $input
:P |
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webkid
Posting Mania
1590 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2004 : 9:03:23 PM
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No... that's not the problem. I know how to query an SQL database. What I'm talking about is this:
How do we put that query into the Neuros? Who/what parses and runs the query? There's no sockets in this situation.
So do we write it to a file? That's all well and good, but then how do we get the result set back?
Do you see where I'm going with this? |
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Chameleon
Posting Mania
1396 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 10:32:44 AM
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I'm proposing using an SQL engine instead of the current DB engine. I know that I mentioned this too late for it to be possible for OS/2, so consider it for OS/3.
SQLite on the Neuros would make the Neuros an SQL server. You would connect to it with SQL client interfaces. The firmware and NSM/NDBM/whatever would need to be SQL clients.
It's not difficult to interface with an SQL server... I automate software testing for a living and my scripts can and do interface directly with multiple types of SQL servers.
Order Number: 2249 |
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Sean Starkey
Posting Mania
848 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 11:08:50 AM
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I don't think the Neuros has the CPU horsepower to implement an SQL server. Maybe I'm wrong.
Sean Starkey - Project Manager for Neuros Database Manipulator - http://neurosdbm.sourceforge.net |
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Chameleon
Posting Mania
1396 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 11:44:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Starkey
I don't think the Neuros has the CPU horsepower to implement an SQL server. Maybe I'm wrong.
I agree that it won't be running Microsoft SQL Server 2003 any time soon, but it might be able to run this SQLite which only has a memory footprint of 25KB for the entire server.
SQLite is meant to be used in embedded devices.
Edit:
Considering that the iPod runs a 40MHz ARM7 core (see 2.9.1) and the Neuros' main DSP Core runs either 120 MHz or 160 MHz (still not certain on which it is) and that Linux can run on the iPod and could run on the Neuros, I think it's possible to implement this or another small footprint embedded SQL server into the Neuros.
Order Number: 2249 |
Edited by - Chameleon on 01/22/2004 12:38:10 PM |
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Sean Starkey
Posting Mania
848 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 1:30:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chameleon
quote:
Originally posted by Starkey
I don't think the Neuros has the CPU horsepower to implement an SQL server. Maybe I'm wrong.
I agree that it won't be running Microsoft SQL Server 2003 any time soon, but it might be able to run this SQLite which only has a memory footprint of 25KB for the entire server.
SQLite is meant to be used in embedded devices.
Edit:
Considering that the iPod runs a 40MHz ARM7 core (see 2.9.1) and the Neuros' main DSP Core runs either 120 MHz or 160 MHz (still not certain on which it is) and that Linux can run on the iPod and could run on the Neuros, I think it's possible to implement this or another small footprint embedded SQL server into the Neuros.
As you probably know, there is a lot more to a CPU's power than pure clock speed. But since iPod can do it, Neuros can probably do it.
A SQL server would be neat and powerful. But a lot can be done with the current database structure. The firmware doesn't support all the functionality of the database structure. If it did, you'd see a lot more stuff in our menus. 
Sean Starkey - Project Manager for Neuros Database Manipulator - http://neurosdbm.sourceforge.net |
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Chameleon
Posting Mania
1396 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 3:55:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Starkey
As you probably know, there is a lot more to a CPU's power than pure clock speed. But since iPod can do it, Neuros can probably do it.
A SQL server would be neat and powerful. But a lot can be done with the current database structure. The firmware doesn't support all the functionality of the database structure. If it did, you'd see a lot more stuff in our menus.
Show me the money!!
An SQL server *would* be immensely powerful... it could go WAY beyond just a DB of music...
Anyway, I hope to see more of the functionality of the database structure in OS/2.
Hmm... Maybe a firmware with the SQL engine could be called "OS/2 Warp"........
But that might be going a bit too far.
Order Number: 2249 |
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webkid
Posting Mania
1590 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2004 : 5:57:00 PM
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I still argue that with the way we have it now, where the only means of communication with the Neuros is a passive USB Mass Storage driver for FAT32, implementing with an SQL database would have to involve downloading the entire database structure as a file, modifying it per SQLLite code, then re-uploading it. And I know that Starkey doesn't have porting C into Java as a top priority...  |
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Chameleon
Posting Mania
1396 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2004 : 2:09:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by webkid
I still argue that with the way we have it now, where the only means of communication with the Neuros is a passive USB Mass Storage driver for FAT32, implementing with an SQL database would have to involve downloading the entire database structure as a file, modifying it per SQLLite code, then re-uploading it. And I know that Starkey doesn't have porting C into Java as a top priority...
Why would you have to do any of that if the Neuros becomes an SQL server? It doesn't make sense.
All you'd have to do is send SQL commands to the Neuros and the onboard server would process them and make it happen.
Probably wouldn't work using USB Mass Storage protocol... Is it possible to send TCP/IP over USB?
Order Number: 2249 |
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webkid
Posting Mania
1590 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2004 : 02:47:28 AM
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There, someone finally understands my point.
That is exactly the problem... unless the Neuros can modify the USB client real time via the firmware, I'm guessing we're stuck with USB MS. Now, if we made the protocol propriatary, we could have file transfer with sockets and everything. But then Linux/Mac support would languish.
Is there an open standard to making a USB device like a network adapter? I'm sure there's plenty for cable/DSL modems and such, but I thought most of those were based on brand... and besides, I'm merely musing at this point... it's really doubtful that this could/would be implemented. |
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sez
Posting is for Closers
74 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2004 : 09:19:58 AM
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I know that my Zaurus communicates with my Linux laptop via TCP/IP over USB. I had to set up a separate subnet for it and configure iptables to do forwarding between the Zaurus's network and the actual network my machine sits on.
For Linux, it's the usbnet driver -- it's one of the kernel modules. Once my Zaurus is plugged into the usb port, I can treat it like any other Linux machine--ssh into it, scp files over to it, etc. I can ping it and it responds like any other machine on the network.
I think the more pertinent question would be modifying the firmware on the Neuros to support TCP/IP over USB. Or porting Linux over to the Neuros. |
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kronin
Posting Mania
1144 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2004 : 09:57:47 AM
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| Now we're back to needing a full tcp/ip stack in the firmware (we got here with the ethernet port discussion, too). I do think having a tcp/ip stack would be pretty cool, but I'm hesitant to say the Neuros has the horsepower to run it plus a SQL server plus ftp. On top of that, I doubt Neuros' DSP can process incoming files (assuming we got a tcp/ip stack and an ftp server) as fast as treating it like a USB mass-storage device. |
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Chameleon
Posting Mania
1396 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2004 : 10:46:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by kronin
Now we're back to needing a full tcp/ip stack in the firmware (we got here with the ethernet port discussion, too). I do think having a tcp/ip stack would be pretty cool, but I'm hesitant to say the Neuros has the horsepower to run it plus a SQL server plus ftp. On top of that, I doubt Neuros' DSP can process incoming files (assuming we got a tcp/ip stack and an ftp server) as fast as treating it like a USB mass-storage device.
Why not? I can FTP using my 33 MHz Palm OS PDA.
Order Number: 2249 |
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Ziviyr
Posting Profoundly
129 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2004 : 12:45:54 PM
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| Does your PDA have 64K or less RAM? |
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