Neuros Technology Forums

The promise of firmware and hardware upgrades and the no questions asked return was all part of the Gamma offer.
Im currently struggling with the decision to return now and be done with it or continue to belive in the project and wait.

Same boat here.  I'd like to hold out but the indefinite nature of the release date for a 442v2 makes me wary of holding on much longer.  You'll recall that the 442v2 production schedule on the Google Group had a timeline where, I believe, the EE and ME work was to be done on the 442v2 by now.  From what I can gather, it looks like production has fallen behind that earlier posted timeline.  Realistically, I don't think we can expect anything prior to the Summer of 2007, and Neuros, despite numerous requests, won't provide any kind of estimate as to a ship date for the 442v2.

I want to keep the 442 but it's pretty much worthless as an MP3 player so I end up carrying 2 devices as it currently stands.  I assume the 442v2 would have support for ID3 tags, which would mean it could function as both a video and audio device.  The 442 is basically a video only device due to the crappy software.

Too many places to search for information.
When we do have time to contribute, I find I could spend hours just trying to navigate around Neuros forums, wikis,
blogs, bugzillas, google groups just to find out where one can get the newest information or even where to post it.

Amen.  Way too much time wasted on redundant communication mediums and not enough time on actual product development.

There were a lot more Gamma testers that used to frequent these forums but Neuros is notoriously slow to respond to any inquiries posted here that most no longer bother.

That sounds a little different than the marketing hype of last fall.  I don't think I would have bought a Neuros 442 if I knew it would never live up to it's promises and I would be forced to trade it in to get a useful device.

True.  Actually, most of us wouldn't have bought one if we knew then what we  know now.  Lesson learned.

For those that upgrade to the 442v2 when it comes out, don't be surprised if there are similarly few, if any, firmware upgrades.

It's not going to happen -- Neuros has already made it very clear on these forums that they have NO plans to upgrade the firmware for the original 442.  I agree that it's not right -- particularly in light of what was promised during the gamma program -- but not much you can do about it other than return your 442 for a refund.

Sorry, there is no such software for the 442.   

First, let me say that the idea of a 442v2 is a great one!  Despite someone's earlier post that they don't watch video, there is a HUGE market for video (just look at the rise of Youtube as an example) and most people would watch it in this format.  Unfortunately, it is an idea that most of us expected to exist in reality more than 6 months ago.  Instead, it is a concept that has appeared to languish amidst a lack of focus from Neuros on what it wants to deliver to the public.  This thread is illustrative of that ever-changing sense of "what do we want to do."  It is good to be responsive and try to meet the perceived needs of the buying public, but it seems to me that you have to do your research and then make a decision to move forward to meet the needs of what the research has shown.

I agree with JeffH's comments that Neuros needed to develop their open source product in-house and then release a finished product with open source code.  Neuros' desire to develop its products from the outset in the open source community, while noble, does not seem to be a good business model for high-priced hardware.  Open source development works extremely well for free (or cheap) software that supports existing hardware but trying to involve the OS community in the development of the hardware from the beginning is akin to trying to herd cats or staple jello to  a wall.  There needs to be more focus and that does not exist in that type of environment where there is little accountability and people are working on the product in their "spare time."  Absent a paradigm shift in how the development of products occurs at Neuros, I do not forsee there being the kind of focus that is necessary to succeed in this market.  Perhaps, Neuros will prove me a wrong (let's hope so), but what products have been released since Neuros moved away from in-house development to this wholly collaborative approach?  Any?  It's a great idea in theory but in this fast-paced industry it appears to be too slow of a process to be successful.

Now, if the 442 was a fully functioning device right now -- (i.e. -- Analog recorder coupled with the features, functionality and reliability of the Creative Zen Vision W) it would sell like hotcakes.   I can already see the guys at PCMag and CNET salivating for such a device.  Clearly, the 442 was hampered by poor hardware design and terrible, buggy software.  As a gamma tester, my fear is that someone else will come out with the equivalent of a working 442 while we sit here and wait forever for the 442v2 to be released. 

Joe replied to our posts on the google group and said he would post a update here soon.

It has been more than 2 weeks and still no real update.  Joe posted on another thread and basically it looks like they don't have any idea when the 442v2 will ship.  Not good news for Gamma testers who shelled out their $400 believing they'd have an upgraded open source product in 6 months.  Realistically, I don't think we can expect to see a fully functioning 442v2 ship out until Summer 2007 at the earliest.  There are just too many unknowns and I haven't seen a strong sense of focus from Neuros to get the 442v2 to market ahead of it's other products which are competing for its developers' time and Neuros' resources.

 . . . .  I'm hopeful that we can have something useful by the year end, and do our pilot run then . . .  It's really all up to the firmware development schedule though. . . . power management and a comprehensive MP3 player interface/dbase are two big missing peices.

. . . . the internal resources for the firmware are lacking.  This is what makes the estimation of time so difficult, this is very much going to rely on the community.

Because there have been a number of inquiries by 442 gamma testers about the expected release date of an updated 442 (442v2),  I thought I would repost a portion of my response on the Google Group thread (http://groups.google.com/group/Neuros-DM320Hardware/browse_frm/thread/6facf691f3425068?scoring=d&hl=en&)  as I am sure there are a number of  people following the 442v2 development that come here and are not aware of that group.

As a gamma tester, I have followed the discussion regarding the 442v2's release date very closely.  Based upon Neuros' replies to this issue on this and other forums thus far, it appears that there are enough unknowns and contingencies related to the development of the 442v2 that the release date could perhaps be summed up and paraphrased as  'Unfortunately, we do not know when it will ship but, at the earliest, it will be Summer 2007, maybe later, if ever.'   

I don't like to paraphrase others, but what other option is there?  I cannot imagine that within Neuros there is no discussion about actual target release dates or goals set to achieve X and Y, so that Z can occur.  Earlier in this very thread we have been told that "[Neuros will] be candid and let the original purchasers decide for themselves what's right for them," and I guess that's what we're now left to do, despite 'candidness' being a fairly relative term.

Notwithstanding my noticeable disappointment, I do appreciate Neuros taking the time to respond.  That is more than some companies will do and I give Neuros credit in that regard.  I think I now have an answer about the 442v2; unfortunately, it was not the answer I was hoping for.  I will still follow the 442v2's development with interest but going forward it may or may not be as a gamma tester.  Best regards.

For some time now, I have been trying to get a definitive answer from Neuros regarding a date when the new 442v2 will ship.  Thus far, I have not received an answer to that question.  I have read replies both on this forum and at http://groups.google.com/group/Neuros-DM320Hardware?hl=en
with comments about the 442v2's development and the need for better communication with the gamma group but nothing that answered this initial important question.

For those of us that purchased the 442 as part of the Gamma test group, all we really want to know is WHEN WILL WE BE ABLE TO UPGRADE OUR EXISTING 442 to the new 442v2?  Software problems really limit the usability of the current 442 as an all-in-one media device and most of us have been patient with those deficiencies because we knew the upgrade program existed.  However, what was once a 6 month wait has now more than doubled and Neuros is not shining any light at the end of the proverbial tunnel.  PLEASE, let us know the status of the 442v2 either in this forum, which is the forum on Neuros' official website or in your Google group which discussed the development of the 442v2 -- http://groups.google.com/group/Neuros-DM320Hardware?hl=en

Derek and Joe, Thank you for the replies.  Prior to my post I had already stumbled upon http://open.neurostechnology.com and read Joes' update there.  Unfortunately, that post on Joe's blog, as well as the replies posted in this thread, do not answer the primary question posed which is WHEN IS THE 442v2 going to be released?  We have still been given virtually nothing in terms of an official release date.  It is now mid-August -- has Neuros hit its production deadlines as laid out on the
open.neurostechnology.com?? Or is everything backed up even further?  It doesn't seem like 4th Qtr 2006 is even a remote possibility for a release of the 442v2 so when, if at all, in 2007 do you expect to release the upgrade?

BTW, Joe's link to http://wiki.neurostechnology.com/index.php/Website_Reorganization suggests to me that Neuros is spending WAY too much time on secondary (or more likely tertiary) issues like this thesis on the website organization and not enough time on product development, product support and customer support.

Absent a definitive answer to this follow-up post I think myself and several of us Woot devotees will package up our 442's and send them back.  Other options are hitting the market now (ie - Archos AV500) and don't seem to have the software or hardware problems that the current Gamma 442 has.  All were asking for is a straight answer with some sort of deadline.  Waffling on the deadline or on the state of production for the 442 causes justifiable concern about the future viability of the product.  Anyway, my 2 cents.  Look forward to your reply.

best regards,
Mark

...gamma testers what the anticipated release date is for the 442v2.  We don't need an exact day but could you at least provide us with some idea of when we will be able to upgrade our existing unit? This summer? this fall? 2007?

Many of us agreed to participate in the Gamma Program and to provide Neuros with the kind of feedback about the 442 that only a large # of consumers can provide.  At the time we purchased the 442, we were led to believe that the 442 would be upgraded in a couple different ways.  First, via firmware updates that improved the functionality of the device based upon bugs/wishes reported by the testers.  Second, that a major upgrade of the 442 to an open source version would be available within 6 months.  Neither of those promises has been met and many of us could live with that IF there was open communication about the status of the 442v2.  

Continuing to ignore your own test group by choosing not to respond on these forums only serves to disenfranchise your core audience from the Neuros brand.  We're hear to help, we've offered help, advice, our experiences.  We appreciate the upgrade offer that was promised but all the good will Neuros has garnered to date is quickly being lost as more and more of your gamma testers are becoming frustrated with the lack of response.  Your lack of response is insulting to our intelligence and a huge deviation from your stated "fanatical desire to keep [y]our customers happy."  I think the vast majority of your testers have tried to be as patient as possible.  It would be nice if you would simply let us know the status of the 442v2 and it's anticipated arrival date.

regards,
Mark

quote:Originally posted by Vechs

 I have the same problems with videos too... my video list looks like this :

Some Show Episod~
Some Show Episod~
Some Show Episod~
Some Show Episod~

Since Neuros seems to be adding features with each firmware release, I'd like to request a scrolling file name be added somewhere in the selections menu, or just on the highlighted file itself.

This is probably the single biggest complaint as it basically cripples the user's ability to interact with the device. There is so much wasted space and pointless info on the right side of the display it's almost laughable that someone ever approved this kind of UI.  I am absolutely dumbfounded that this has not yet been addressed after 2 firmware upgrades.  I suspect this is one of the primary reasons gamma testers are returning their 442.  Absent an update of this feature, I will be joining them.

Unbelievable.  I remember when I signed up for the Gamma testing through Woot we were told that in exchange for shelling out $400 to test the 442 and post our opinions of the 442, we would, within the next 6 months, end up with an updated fully functioning device regardless of whether we chose to upgrade to the newer open source model.  We're now approaching 9 months and I'm still stuck with basically an analog to digital video recorder with modest playback abilities (still can't see the whole file name to figure out which episode I'm playing) and horrible music playback abilities (you can't even browse for the next song while the thing plays).

Why should we believe that Neuros will be any more responsive to user needs with the new 442v2 when it is apparent that there is comparatively little concern for EXISTING customers using the existing 442.  We are told we can get the new model for a "deeply discounted price" but this doesn't include the fact that we already shelled out a large chunk of money for a very primitive model with a UI that is universally agreed to be terrible.  We are/were the early adopters that were willing to help Neuros in its development and now, unless we're willing to give Neuros even MORE money, we're stuck with a product that is cumbersome to use as a video player (great as a video recorder though) and pretty much worthless as an audio player and/or photo viewer.  

The 2 firmware upgrades have done VERY little to improve the usefullness of the 442 to the consumer, nor has Neuros mgmt given us any solid timetable as to when we'll get to upgrade our handicapped 442 for something better.  I'm not "demanding" to know when the new version will be available, but maybe you guys are right and it's time to return the 442 for a refund.  I don't expect perfection out of my media player but many of the requests are extremely basic changes that really should have been included from the outset.

kcmark

When I signed up for the Gamma testing through Woot we were led to believe that in exchange for shelling out some serious bucks to test the 442 and post our opinions and experiences with the device, we would, over time, end up with an updated fully functioning device regardless of whether we chose to upgrade to the newer open source model.  Why should we believe that Neuros will be any more responsive to user needs with the new model when it is apparent that there is comparatively little concern for EXISTING customers using existing products.  We are told we can get the new model for a "deeply discounted price" but this doesn't include the fact that we already shelled out $400.00 for a very primitive model with a user interface that it is universally agreed to be terrible.  We are/were the early adopters that were willing to help Neuros in its development and now, unless we're willing to give Neuros even more money, we're stuck with a product that is difficult to use as a video player and nearly worthless as an audio player or photo viewer.  Please do not become like the cell phone service companies whose model of catering to the prospective customer and ignoring the current customers.  

Basic upgrades that should have been included in this firmware upgrade:

(1) video bookmarking
(2) UI change so that user can see full file name SOMEWHERE in the video player, audio player and photo viewer.  Right now there is no way to see the full file name and with longer similar file names (such as what one has with television episodes) it is impossible to know which show you select until it plays for a bit.
(3) removal of huge black bar which blocks 1/4 of the screen prior to hitting "record."

We're not asking for much here.  Just some basic changes that should have been implemented prior to the Gamma release, but most certainly should be released at this point.

BTW, when am I going to get my rebate check??  It's been MONTHS.

In closing, I appreciate and understand the nature of changing and evolving technologies and know that Neuros is trying to strike a balance that works for everyone.  However, the 2 firmware upgrades have done VERY little to improve the usefullness of the 442 to the consumer. Most of us, if not all, expected more and I think we're being pretty reasonable in those expectations.

best regards,
Mark

quote:Originally posted by pete7919

If you've tried all those things and it's still not working, I'd give customer support a call.  From the sticky:

If you’re still not getting any satisfaction, please email us with your problem at support@neurosaudio.com. You can also usually get an actual (and helpful) human voice if you call toll-free between 9 AM and 5 PM Central Time at: 866-5NEUROS. If no one answers, please leave a message with your number, and we’ll get back to you.


FYI- You're problem is not related to firmware, as there is no updated firmware released yet.  I also posted under that thread for clarification.

Thanks.  I'll give that a try and post whatever solution we find, if any.