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gbcox
Just Posting
3 Posts |
 Posted - 10/14/2004 : 12:10:15 PM
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| I purchased a Neuros II with an 80GB backpack. After loaded all my q=8 music I experienced skips during playback. When reading the forums I see that others have reported the issue, writing that q=8 is too high, yet others report q=6 is too high in some instance. Personally, I will never consider encoding based upon the limitations of a portable player - and I think quite a few other people share the same view - otherwise they would simply stay with mp3. My question is does anyone know if there is a plan to correct this? Is it a limitation with the hardware (I hope not since Neuros II just came out), or is it a firmware issue (I thought XIPH contributed to writing). I see other vendors (iRiver, etc.) are now producing players that advertise full bitrate support. I like the idea of opening up the code and always try to purchase products that support that philosophy, but it has to work. There is nothing in the product literature that I can find that mentions this bitrate limitation. Is it urban myth and the problem is actually something else? If it is indeed real, the product literature should be changed (if it has not already). |
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Gar Bage
Posting Profoundly
108 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2004 : 1:21:01 PM
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I drop one of my beloved 7" vinyl on the turntables, and make it to FLAC using a preamp, my soundcard and some home digital audio studio software.
Once on my hard disk, i converted it to Ogg Vorbis q10 full-quality, using FooBar200.
Further info about the file follows:
01 - Sr. Chinarro - Que puedo hacer.ogg
bitrate = 515
channels = 2
samplerate = 44100
bitrate_nominal = 499
codec = Vorbis
vorbis_vendor = AO; aoTuV b2 [20040420] (based on Xiph.Org's 1.0.1)
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10846208 samples @ 44100Hz
Then, i put it on my Neuros II, with custom breed firmware, and synced the unit.
So far, it played from the beginning to the end smoothly, not a single skip, not silences in-the-middle.
Then, i turned on MyFi, which is very time processing consuming, and replayed it. Again, not a single skip, it played perfectly. I must say at this point, the interface went somewhat sluggish, responding a bit late, pushing the unit a bit hard trying to update the on-screen-display (i.e. the playing time skipped in intervals of 2 seconds instead of one). But it was a minor problem, as i turned MyFi off, or stopped the song everyhing was responsive again.
I repeated the test with two more q10 tracks. Same results.
My brick packs horse power enough to fit my needs. I never had a single skip issue.
-- Help put peace in the world. Buck Fush, Bill Kush. |
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Gar Bage
Posting Profoundly
108 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2004 : 2:09:09 PM
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Updated:
Expanded the burn-test as follows:
Same file, but converted to mp3 with LAME --alt-preset-insane
LAME version 3.90.3 MMX (http://www.mp3dev.org/)
enc_delay = 576
enc_padding = 1600
mp3_accurate_length = yes
bitrate = 320
codec = MP3
channels = 2
samplerate = 44100
mp3_stereo_mode = joint stereo
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10846208 samples @ 44100Hz
(rounded samples : 10845660)
Played perfectly, with both MyFi on and off. No interface slowness at all.
Same file, converted to Ogg Vorbis with -q10, 1.1 command line encoder.
OggEnc v1.0.1 (libvorbis 1.0.1)
bitrate = 504
channels = 2
samplerate = 44100
bitrate_nominal = 499
codec = Vorbis
vorbis_vendor = Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20040629
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10846208 samples @ 44100Hz
It played perfectly again. But it couldn't handle MyFi.
When MyFi was enabled, the sound got somewhat distorted and unpleasant, and the interface was slowed down to hell. The overall bitrate was lower than the aoTuV file, so i cannot guess what happened.
So far, it can handle all my files, no matter its quality.
All my Ogg files were -q6 and -q8 aoTuV encoded.
-- Help put peace in the world. Buck Fush, Bill Kush. |
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gbcox
Just Posting
3 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2004 : 2:16:53 PM
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| Interesting. I did call technical support and they asked what q level I was using when I reported the problem. There may be a difference when going from vinyl as you described vs. from CD. Either way, alot of others in the forums are reporting the problem, and technical support seems to be aware but are keeping kinda quiet on the details. I wish someone would post what is going on and what (if any) are the plans to fix it. I have already sent my unit back, but would be willing to repurchase at some point if I can get a straight answer on this. But it appears to be a problem in some manner with supporting high bitrate encoding from CDs. |
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xercist
Posting Profoundly
116 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2004 : 6:08:50 PM
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| I would think sampling from vinyl would result in more noise, which would lead to a higher bitrate in the encoded file. |
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Don
Posting Mania
435 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2004 : 6:32:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by xercist
I would think sampling from vinyl would result in more noise, which would lead to a higher bitrate in the encoded file.
There would be less dynamic range which I guess could theoretically save you some bits... though there are certainly lots of CD's out there that don't take advantage of the range available.
I find it very interesting that the 2 different versions of the ogg encoder yielded files that the Neuros could and couldn't keep up with (on myfi). I recall that when ogg first came to the Neuros the worst performance reports were for pre-1.0 encodeed files.
-Don |
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xercist
Posting Profoundly
116 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2004 : 7:22:48 PM
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| 1.0-beta4 encoded oggs and earlier use Floor 0, which requires considerably more memory to decode, which the Neuros doesn't have. I believe it has something like 64 kB of working memory on the chip. |
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webkid
Posting Mania
1590 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2004 : 8:01:43 PM
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| And remember that we load things like menus and the UI into memory, so it's often less... |
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8thNote
Posting Mania
258 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2004 : 10:18:16 PM
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I was almost full-Ogg awhile back until I learned that MyFi doesn't work well with my Q6 Oggs. It would skip randomly. After learning this is common, and realizing the limited compatibility of Ogg, I returned to MP3.
Daniel J. Lewis |
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Andre
Posting is for Closers
46 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2004 : 12:59:04 PM
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Hi everyone;
It's been a about year or more since I even looked at the forums and I see the same issue on the OGG Sad  looks to me as though they either don't know what to do or have no plans to fix this problem. Not only is this an ongoing issue lockups, and various other instability issues continue to abound. My latest issue is "No Playable Media Selected" the unit has about 6 gigs of music and there is only so many ways to select it... This thing is not worth the money I spent on it. Like I said Sad It seemed to have so much potential. Probably the only real potential is the money Neuros has and will make on first time buyers like myself who got taken by all the advanced features. Sad
Thanks - Andrew |
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